JamOrigin - MIDI Guitar = Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI Software

Started by Charles5150, December 15, 2012, 05:18:42 AM

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musicman65

Anyone know what the minimum CPU for the PC version would be? I have a tiny pocket-sized computer I'd like to try it on. It's a 1.8ghz Atom based device with a lean and mean stripped down XP install. It runs Cubase 2.x like a champ.

bd

PD FX

Quote from: musicman65 on December 28, 2012, 02:38:59 PM
Anyone know what the minimum CPU for the PC version would be? I have a tiny pocket-sized computer I'd like to try it on. It's a 1.8ghz Atom based device with a lean and mean stripped down XP install. It runs Cubase 2.x like a champ.

bd
there's no real minimum I guess, since it also runs on a Iphone. How much of a softsynth you can run on the same computer, that is the question, that however depends on what kind of sound you want, which synth etc..
So you just have to try it, it wont hurt the computer..

musicman65

No softsynth for me. I would attempt to send midi to my rack synth. My only issue is the single USB port. I may be able to use the mic input jack for guitar input. I'm not sure how I would use it since I have a fully functional rig with guise to midi but hey, a new method is always fun.

bd

BasV

I have the standalone app working on my Mac, but couldn't find the AU version...is it there or is there only a vst plugin ?


Cheers,
Bas

PD FX

#54
Quote from: BasV on December 28, 2012, 05:50:47 PM
I have the standalone app working on my Mac, but couldn't find the AU version...is it there or is there only a vst plugin ?

Cheers,
Bas
AU it is in the zip.. it is called "midi guitar.component"
copy that into  "/bibliotheek/audio/plugins/components (Dutch system)" or whatever you language makes of it ')
English system: /library/audio/plugins/components

PD FX

#55
Quote from: musicman65 on December 28, 2012, 04:22:45 PM
No softsynth for me. I would attempt to send midi to my rack synth. My only issue is the single USB port. I may be able to use the mic input jack for guitar input. I'm not sure how I would use it since I have a fully functional rig with guise to midi but hey, a new method is always fun.

bd
that'll work great, musicman, I've tested my gr30 as synth connected to Midi Guitar, it almost seemed faster than a local softsynth.
surely a dedicated synth is more reliable on stage. no buffersettings there.. ')

By the way: mainboards with just a mic input, mostly offer a level switch. Look in advanced settings of your minipc's soundcard. Plan A: You can propably switch it to line level! There's probably "pluginpower" on the mic input, so you cannot use it directly in microphone mode. You can check this with a voltmeter in the DC range. if there are 3 to 12volts on the input, it is still in microphone mode, goto Plan B.
Plan B: you cannot get rid of this "pluginpower", ( which actually is a low voltage phantompower supply), you can hack it by adding 1muF condensators in series, that'll get rid of the DC. The impedance is then somewhat low, however, and it'll work best with some headphoneoutput. Probably any stompbox will however buffer the signal enough to make MG work like a breeze..


musicman65

Thanks Polson! I'll give it a try when I get a break.

bd

Piing

Ole, thank you for developing this amazing application.

I've installed the demo and found a big latency... but I have just discovered that the latency actually comes from my laptop audio (HP nx9420), not from the midi conversion. I´ve never connected the guitar direct to the laptop before, and the sound has a delay. Tomorrow I will check it with the RME FF400

Perhaps a silly question: How to activate pitch-bending recognition for playing leads?

PD FX

Quote from: Piing on December 29, 2012, 05:41:54 AM
Ole, thank you for developing this amazing application.

I've installed the demo and found a big latency... but I have just discovered that the latency actually comes from my laptop audio (HP nx9420), not from the midi conversion. I´ve never connected the guitar direct to the laptop before, and the sound has a delay. Tomorrow I will check it with the RME FF400

Perhaps a silly question: How to activate pitch-bending recognition for playing leads?
Question is not silly.
0.52 doesnt support pitchbend yet, that'll come in the near future I guess.


PD FX

#59
I've connected my good old gr-30 as hardware synth to my laptop.
I'm running MG with prediction 3, routed to the gr-30.
I've connected the GR-55 parallel to this..
Both gr-55 and gr-30 output the same sound.
I've recorded the output of the gr-55 and the gr-30 into audacity.
My G on the 6th string comes faster via MG via GR-30
The GR-55
beaten in da bass..
beaten with 60 to 75 samples, every time..

In the higher register MG loses clearly in terms of speed, which should be no suprise.
Things are turning out to be very interesting!

I'll redo the test with a better sound to be more precise about the performance, I've to search a best matching pcm sound that is available in both gr55 and gr30.





musicman65

Awesome! Can't wait to see the results. Percussive sounds would be great.

bd

evenfell

Just an update for my use of this plugin.

I have now testet it extensively for many days with my mac.
My chain:
Gibson les paul - Native instruments session Io  - Macbook pro - midi jamorigin - ableton live - softsynth - headphones out

I have tested this plugin with:
Omnisphere, Camelaudio alchemy, Miroslav Philharmonic orchestra, native ableton plugins
I have to say I am totally awestruck. As said earlier this is the my best spent money on gear ever.

It works like a charm on any plugin I through at it. Almost no latency at all, tracks great once you learn how to pick the strings (as any midi guitar device I guess).

I am planning to put up some videos on youtube eventually.

sixeight

Did some latency tests today with MIDI guitar.
Built a session on my Macbook in Pedalboard 2.
Left channel MIDI guitar (0.5.2. beta) into Sampletank (Sparkling EP)
Right channel VG99 MIDI into another instance of Sampletank (Sparkling EP)
Recorder it on two mono channels in Cubase on my windows 7 PC.

Results are below. There are no differences in latency for both high and low notes.
Only difference is in level of the notes produced.

I was quite suprised by this. Checked twice whether I did it right, but lowering volume on guitar made the left channel stop and switching of guitar to midi on the VG99 mad the right channel stop. Maybe some of you guys can reproduce this test...




gumtown

Quote from: Jim Williams on December 28, 2012, 06:04:13 AM
Here is an interesting question..... The GT-100 has a Dry guitar out option in the USB out modes what other guitar processors have the option so you can use them with MidiGuitar? I have not come across this before and the 3 USB out modes seem to be a great idea for that type of guitar processor.
I have in the past used other pitch-2-midi software (TS AudioToMidi) and a few softsynths (Z3TA+), and routed the audio from the GT via USB to a laptop, processed the pitch to mid and softsynth, complete with EXP pedal level control of the synth via USB midi (inverse volume), then routed th audio back to the GT via the USB cable, and used the GT outputs with both the guiatr and softsynth played back.
The only outBoard extra equipment required was the laptop and a USB cable for software guitar synth with the GT-10/100 as an audio interface.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

PD FX

Quote from: gumtown on January 01, 2013, 02:37:16 AM
I have in the past used other pitch-2-midi software (TS AudioToMidi) and a few softsynths (Z3TA+), and routed the audio from the GT via USB to a laptop, processed the pitch to mid and softsynth, complete with EXP pedal level control of the synth via USB midi (inverse volume), then routed th audio back to the GT via the USB cable, and used the GT outputs with both the guiatr and softsynth played back.
The only outBoard extra equipment required was the laptop and a USB cable for software guitar synth with the GT-10/100 as an audio interface.
I do the same with the gr-55, that way you can easily add a playback too, the gr-55 or in your case GT100 then serves a a mixer.
If I want to sync the softsynth better with the normal guitar, you can switch the gr-55 to "direct monitor:off", and route the normal guitar through the computer DAW, that way it gets a little delay that makes the sound more tight. Dont know if the GT100 has got "direct monitoring" options.


gumtown

Just thinking a hardware device version of this software in a box which goes normal guitar input to a GK output for a VG/GR device would be super handy.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

PD FX

Quote from: gumtown on January 04, 2013, 01:34:26 AM
Just thinking a hardware device version of this software in a box which goes normal guitar input to a GK output for a VG/GR device would be super handy.
haha, now THAT is science fiction.. what your actually asking is a "intelligent monosignal to hexsignal converter". I dont think anyone will build this, it will in the best case sound artificial, and add *at least* 2 bufferframes of latency to the outgoing hexsignal.
You can run 6 instances of jamorigin on a dedicated pc though, and connect it to a GK guitar, THAT would make sense. But it is unclear whether you'll get the latency right in such a multichannel audio setup, and you'll need a second engine to run the synths..


 

oddguitar

Just got the Apogee Jam & downloaded the MIDI Guitar app as well as Garage Band to my iPad 2.  The fact that it requires no hex pickup is a gamechanger.  If Jam Origin can get the latency down to where one can play accurately in a live setting, then they will have eliminated the three main reasons why MIDI guitar has never gone mainstream (need for a hex pickup, latency & cost) in one fell swoop.

I don't think this spells the end for hex pickups because there are still advantages to having one: Roland's entire VG/GR catalog, the upcoming Antares AutoTune for guitar pedalboard, and the Fishman Triple Play.  For Fishman's sake, I sure hope that the Triple Play tracks better and has lower latency than MIDI Guitar, otherwise their product will already be obsolete and overpriced before ever making it to market!

A question for you MD users & Ole....most of you seem to use the standalone version of MD, but for those of you using the iPad app, is there any adjustment I can make to reduce the latency?  I don't have any other soft synths on my iPad, but I can't imagine that another soft synth would be any quicker than Garage Band (albeit with better sounding samples).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-oddguitar

Elantric


MCK

Cross posted from another forum :

MIDI Guitar 0.6.0 BETA is now available.

MIDI Guitar 0.6 BETA has got some new features including the first experimental support for pitch bends, improved velocity control, MIDI-through for using expression pedals as well as general tracking improvements. There is also improved documentation pages built in.

We are always curious about customer's needs and your experience with MIDI Guitar, so please don't hesitate to give feedback and ask questions about MIDI Guitar by replying to this email.

Previous versions of MIDI Guitar have been free to use for non-customers in various ways and for this reason MIDI Guitar versions up to 0.5.2 BETA are going to expire as pr today. If you get an expiration message, please just run one of these newest versions instead:

Windows Downloads:
Version 0.6.0 BETA: http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/MIDI-Guitar-0.6.0-Win.zip
Version 0.5.3 BETA: http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/MIDI-Guitar-0.5.3-Win.zip

Mac Downloads:
Version 0.6.0 BETA: http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/MIDI-Guitar-0.6.0-Mac.zip
Version 0.5.3 BETA: http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/MIDI-Guitar-0.5.3-Mac.zip


Whats New in MIDI Guitar 0.6.0 BETA
================================================== ========

General:
* General Tracking Improvements (faster note-off, reduced spurious hits)
* Experimental Pitch Bend support (mono bends only)
* Velocity Control Slider
* All midi sent to MIDI Guitar is now passed through to internal hosted
instruments and also through to the MIDI output. This makes it possible to
use midi expression pedals (sustain)
* Instrument Program Selector
* Pitch Prediction Level 3 is now default
* Test piano is now stereo and full 88 keys
* Console log section displays warnings in case of problems
* Improved documentation and help section

Bugfixes:
* Fixed problem for some interfaces not running at 44.1Khz samplerate
* Fixed bug where some synths would not respond (i.e. Diva).
* Fixed bug where some synth would only output one channel
* Fixed unneccesary many note off messages.
* Fixed not saving channel settings
* Fixed modified factory settings not saved
* Mac download can now unzip with OSX default uncompression utility

mbenigni

Well...

I've posted in a couple of other threads that this software was promising, but ultimately a let down on account of unacceptable latency.  I'm now very happy to eat those words...

When I first posted regarding latency in the 500ms range, Guitarpolson rightly indicated that there must be something very wrong, since he was seeing much better results.  It turned out that the sample I was using (a grand piano bundled with Ableton's Sampler instrument) was the culprit.  As soon as I began testing with other VSTs, performance went through the roof.  I'm now getting latency on par with the GR55, and in terms of glitching (or not) JamOrigin actually feels a little more stable to me.

My only complaint is that, at $100, the price seems a little steep for a software-only solution in beta.  But, since JamOrigin is the only company really pursuing the solution that I think makes most sense (poly detection from a mono guitar signal), I have to support them by buying a copy.

Jim Williams

I have to disagree with th comment on the price..... A guitar to midi hard wareunit is around $400 and a GK-3 is almost $200. To achieve almost the same results for $100 is a bargain.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

mbenigni

QuoteI have to disagree with th comment on the price..... A guitar to midi hard wareunit is around $400 and a GK-3 is almost $200. To achieve almost the same results for $100 is a bargain.

Well, there are several ways to think about it.  For what it's worth I ponied up the $100, so obviously it's worth $100 to me.

So I get you that it's a lot of functionality per dollar vs. a hex pickup arrangement, but it's also a qualitatively different purchase.  The customer brings all the hardware in the way of his/her PC, and the developer merely recoups R&D; manufacturing cost is null and distribution cost is minimal.  Granted, this is a niche product right now, and recouping R&D across a limited customer base may be difficult, but other companies have shipped similar VSTs for much less money in the past.  Just arguing both sides here.  MIDIGuitar is the best I've played thus far, which is why I bought it.

I will say this, though: because you're buying a beta, you're speculating that the software will be improved with time.  This may or may not pan out, so I would expect JamOrigin to offer a price incentive to early adopters of the beta, kind of like a special pre-order price.  Instead, they're charging the full $100, and if anything I would expect that price to fall in time as their user base picks up, group buys are extended, etc.

Anyway, just sayin'.  I'm still damned excited about this product.  After all the work I put into my GR55/iPad rig, I'm starting to think I won't be using it much longer.  Guitar Rig and Dimension Pro and Live and some Looper software, all facilitated by the MIDI Guitar VST... it's just too easy to make this stuff sound better than the GR55 does.

Jim Williams

I'm not arguing and I wouldn't trust my computer in a live situation but it has possibilities. t does have some interesting studio applications but I don't think of it as a replacement for the hexiphonic system just another tool for guitarists to have to enter the world of midi. I feel it is a low cost solution for some to employ other instruments. I have found that Kore 2 has the tools for live performance with the software. I plan to do a video sowing the uses but at this point I lack the resources to make the video. I am working on it though.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

mbenigni

Quote from: Jim Williams on February 25, 2013, 09:24:23 AM
I'm not arguing and I wouldn't trust my computer in a live situation but it has possibilities. t does have some interesting studio applications...

Studio is probably where it will see the most use, but I'm actually interested in it for live applications.  I've done a couple of gigs with a laptop running all of the software I mentioned above, and this was back in the very early Core Duo days; the laptop in question was slightly underpowered and keyboard/mouse were the only ways to interact if something needed tweaking.  Now I'm looking at Surface Pro and various convertible ultrabooks that have as much power on tap as the tower PC at home, and touchscreens that will hopefully help interface with software during performance, and here's this effective means of converting to MIDI.  I'm seeing a very effective, portable solution materializing.  It's pretty much exactly what I was doing pre-GR55, but better executed.