VG-99 - WinXP x64 bit drivers?

Started by Elantric, February 24, 2008, 11:15:37 PM

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Elantric

>So does this mean NO RECORDING ON SONAR 7 PE X64 WITH WIN XP x64? -

Correct

Its a very very limited list of USB audio gear that has 64 bit WinXP x64 USB drivers - its more likely your new motherboard will have x64 drivers
I agree  - I'l love to try them if it they were available for the VG-99. But using the VG-99 as a recording device is a bit of an after thought within Roland.

Just call Guitar Center - ask them what is the best Audio interface for recording guitar - I would be floored if anyone referred you to buy a VG-99.

Add an arcane Sonar x64 requirement - the list of available gear becomes smaller.

Here's Cakewalks official Sonar x64 gear support list:

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2005282.asp

Its true - miracles may occur - Roland did purchase a huge chunk of Cakewalk recently. But after talking to Roland at NAMM about new exciting features for software updates for the VG-99 - perhaps when we are all  singing xmas carols again will be the time frame for anything new update wise for the VG-99


If it does arrive, it will pop up at this link first:

*  Download latest USB Drivers and VG-99 Editor / Librarian Version from Roland Japan
http://www.roland.co.jp/GK/download.html

Elantric


Elantric

Subject: Will 64 Bit Drivers ever be available for the VG-99 (WinX64, Vista 64?
Question: Will 64 Bit Drivers ever be available for the VG-99 (WinX64, Vista 64?

I see Roland has these 64 bit Windows/Vista drivers for other gear - but sadly not for the VG-99.
http://www.roland.com/products/en/windows_vista.html


Is this on the roadmap, and will we have them later this year?

thanks!


<Roland US wrote> 04-30-2008
Hello Steve,
We have made the request to Roland Japan. At this time, we have no information as to when (or if) they might become available.


Sincerely,
Roland Product Support


Elantric

#4
Just a tip for those stuck with Vista 64  or WinXP 64- you can still obtain a USB MIDI interface device with known working  64 bit Drivers - like an Edirol  UM-2EX: USB MIDI Interface and use that to run the VG-99 Editor  / Librarian.


Then Use Two MIDI Cables (In & Out) to connect the VG-99 to the UM-2EX.
* Feed UM-2EX MIDI Out to VG-99 MIDI IN 
* Feed UM-2EX MIDI IN to VG-99 MIDI OUT 

Then you can Launch the VG-99 Editor, click "Setup MIDI Devices" and set this to UM-2EX for both In and Out, and now you can Edit and download patches to the VG-99 under Vista 64.


others interfaces listed Here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Vista/default.asp

truth57

[quote author=sustainiac link=topic=375.msg3647#msg3647 date=1211304707
Just a tip for those stuck with Vista 64  or WinXP 64- you can still obtain a USB MIDI interface device with known working  64 bit Drivers - like an Edirol  UM-2EX: USB MIDI Interface and use that to run the VG-99 Editor  / Librarian.


Then Use Two MIDI Cables (In & Out) to connect the VG-99 to the UM-2EX.
* Feed UM-2EX MIDI Out to VG-99 MIDI IN 
* Feed UM-2EX MIDI IN to VG-99 MIDI OUT 

Then you can Launch the VG-99 Editor, click "Setup MIDI Devices" and set this to UM-2EX for both In and Out, and now you can Edit and download patches to the VG-99 under Vista 64.

others interfaces listed Here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Vista/default.asp

[/quote]

Hi Steve, just wanted to thank you for this info, could be just what I need to get my system working with the laptop!

David

LeeMorant

Editor/driver works absolutely fine in vista ultimate x64 using vmware with xp pro on, and spdif in.  Although the lag when you change patches can be quite bad!

truth57

Quote from: LeeMorant on August 03, 2008, 09:39:28 AM
Editor/driver works absolutely fine in vista ultimate x64 using vmware with xp pro on, and spdif in.  Although the lag when you change patches can be quite bad!

This must be the 13th monkey sydrome  ;D, I just discovered that literally last night, and it doesn't even require a midi interface (My laptop doesn't have an sp/dif connection, so I can't try that). However in order to run software such as Sonar or BB I reckon it would be far too slow, especially with many virtual instruments.
The other thing I discovered is how to make a folder in the host into a shared folder so that it can be accessed within the Virtual OS. That had me scratching my head for a good long time, I can tell you. Then I went online and did a search under the help topics and found how to do it. So with that I could try installing BB or Sonar and try it out. But I am spoilt by how Vista handles these programs - very fast and with no glitches!

David

Elantric

#8
Good news with VMware tip!


Also remember there is a free Microsoft solution too:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

Microsoft Virtual PC 2007  its free.

Its like VMware - You will need a WinXP install disc - but a Vista 64 PC running Virtual PC can load WinXp and run VGEditor with USB cable only.

I think I mentioned this last April

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,692.msg3256.html#msg3256

LeeMorant

Microsoft's version is far less configurable though, and I couldnt find a way to make it grab individual usb devices like VMware Workstation could. Anyway that being said, Sonar should be a breeze as long as you dont plan on using the editor too much at the same time, I've banged together a reasonable rock demo for my site with few problems, I just changed patches/parameters on the VG99 rather than using the editor!

truth57

Quote from: LeeMorant on August 03, 2008, 12:54:12 PM
Microsoft's version is far less configurable though, and I couldnt find a way to make it grab individual usb devices like VMware Workstation could. Anyway that being said, Sonar should be a breeze as long as you dont plan on using the editor too much at the same time, I've banged together a reasonable rock demo for my site with few problems, I just changed patches/parameters on the VG99 rather than using the editor!

I agree, I installed the Microsoft virtual software and after having used VMware I just couldn't get my head round the way Microsoft go about the task. I certainly would not describe the process as intuitive, and as Lee says, it is far less configurable. I managed to get MacOS Tigerx86 running, plus Linux Ubuntu 64-Bit, as well as XP Pro. Installation of all of them was a breeze.

It's great that it's free software, don't misunderstand me, the fact that Microsoft have gone out of their way to provide such a product free of charge is a pleasant surprise.

David


LeeMorant

I still cant get the editor to change paramaters on the VG99 in realtime however, so just patch changing at the minute.  Oh and can still backup patches which is handy too!

judb

Sun has a virtual machine tool called Virtual Box that is also free and might work well for you...  i haven't tried it personally with the VG-99 though.
PRS SE Soapbar II Maple with GK-3, Frankenstein MiM Fender with Graphtech Hexpander system, Breedlove Atlas AC250 with Synergy system, VG-99, FC-300, Cubase 4 Studio, Presonus Firepods, PodXT Pro and FBV controller, Shuttle XPC for DAW use, Mesa Boogie Express 5:50 combo with a 2x12 second cab

s0c9

Since my computer died a couple of weeks ago, I rebuilt it as an AMD Phenom triple-core cpu and 4GB, and I'm now running XP64... so VG99 drivers are useless !!

So, I tried Sun's VirtualBox....
Downloaded and installed it from Sun and built an XP-Pro [32-bit] VM in around an hour.
The native 64-bit Sun code is FAST !!  IT also has w-a-y more options than VMWare's equivalent "Server" or "player" products. I know, I run them too...
The only issue I had was - I couldn't get the network interface to function unless it was set to NAT. So the VM IP is a NAT'ed [10.*.*.*] address on top of your existing IP. I need to play with that some more and check the VirtualBox forums to see if I can assign a network-based IP [192.168.1.*].

I installed VG99 editor and librarian and USB drivers..
Works fine..
I can communicate with the VG99 thru the USB "VG99 Control" driver, piped thru Sun's generic USB interface and out the USB hardware with no issues - that I've seen so far.
Speed ?  Seems as fast to me as running on a native 32-bit interface...
YMMV

got questions ? fire !

-Steve

Elantric

#14
Great info

The next test would be to enable the VG-99 USB Driver's  "Advanced" mode - (see the WinXP Control Panel in the XP-Pro [32-bit] VM)

Advanced mode is required to use the VG-99 as an audio interface.

As a simple test - download the free Reaper Audio Trial and see if you can record  / playback using the VG-99 as the audio interface.

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download.php


LeeMorant

Confirmed by me, Sun virtual box is way better than other progs.  Still a bit of an issue from time to time with guest os losing usb capture but still reporting it as captured.  That is easily solved by a guest reset however.  A clean device manager with no driver errors would be nice too!

LeeMorant

Ok, I have found out why my editor & librarian kept losing vg, it was because of the power down device setting in device manager on the usb hub that the vg connects to.  Uncheck box and it works perfectly without any further glitches.

s0c9

Quote from: sustainiac on September 03, 2008, 05:06:01 PM
Great info

The next test would be to enable the VG-99 USB Driver's  "Advanced" mode - (see the WinXP Control Panel in the XP-Pro [32-bit] VM)

Advanced mode is required to use the VG-99 as an audio interface.

As a simple test - download the free Reaper Audio Trial and see if you can record  / playback using the VG-99 as the audio interface.

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download.php


Steve,
the GOOD news is that recording works -- sort of !!
The BAD news is that it appears that some time will need to be spent adjusting the audio buffers - if that in fact solves the issue. The issue - and not had time to determine if its happening at recording or playback time - is audio dropout.. typical of that experienced with latency, usually correctable with buffer manipulation.

I did experience this with both ASIO and directaudio [soundcard] / WAV input/output options. However, at this point I can't determine if this is caused by buffering/latency of those virtual devices, Reaper config or audio definitions in the VirutalBox config, VirtualBox USB issues or what...
I'll try to spend some time on it this week, and determine the root cause of the dropouts..

-Steve

Elantric

#18
Thanks for the feedback

I suppose you could do the following

Build a P35 MOBO based computer with Q6600 Quad Core, 8GB RAM, and a RME HDSPe RayDAT card with Vista64 drivers
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_raydat.php
add the ADI-8QS I/O box
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_adi_8_qs.php
 
and use the above to record under Vista 64 using Reaper 64,
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/files/2.x/reaper246_x64-install.exe

then run Sun virtual box to run a virtual winXP box to control the VG-99 Editor under USB - and skip using the VG-99 as an audio interface. 


I actually built something similar recently to be a hackentosh for Final Cut Pro and Logic Audio.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


s0c9

#19
And so the saga continues for us XP-64 OS users...  I went on a mission with VirtualBox.

The REAL BAD news...
I tried everything in the hints posts about USB drivers on standard XP, running under Suns VirtualBox [VB] VM [v1.6.6], to get audio working. I simply could NOT get rid of the clicks and pops, no matter whether I chose the default drivers, ASIO, or WDM.  Yes, advanced USB settings worked, and I played with every buffer size and combo under the sun ['scuse the pun], but I could not get smooth audio recorded.
I did observer HIGH cpu use during any recording, so if you decide to pursue that route, you will need some hefty hardware. I'm running an AMD Phenom 8450 64-bit cpu, WinXP64 and 4GB PC6400 866Mhz RAM.   My conclusion is that I wasn't going to make further progress with VirtualBox so I gave up...

And.. tried VMWare.
I had to signup for the 30-day trial of Workstation [v6.*?] and create a winxp image. While installing Workstation, it also uninstalled VMWare Player which I was using to run my other VM's...
The GOOD NEWS is that I installed SP3 and updated all the drivers. I then installed the Roland VG99 drivers - per instructions on the forum - then installed the VG99 editor and librarian.  As with VirtualBox, both of these worked just fine.
So then I installed Reaper [v2.46] on the VM.  I expected the worst...
First recording attempt was just like VB. Pops, clicks, etc. CRUD !!
So I went into the VG drvier settings and bumped up the buffer size to MAX, restarted REAPER.
This time it WORKED !! 

I've attached a REALLY quick 3-track cut [untouched, un-edited, and crappy] using only VG99 patches as an example.

Once my 30-day trial ends, I'll re-install the VMWare Player and I should be set.
Things to NOTE !!
1 - If you try the VMWare route, you will need to activate your copy of XP once you have installed it. Why ? Copying the wpa.* files from a prior install will NOT work as your hardware footprint is different and the embedded algorithms from your prior install will be invalid. In my case, this was a problem as I had too many activations on my MSDN version of XP. I got another key... :)
2 - cpu use will still be high using VMWare - tho' not as high as VB - and I HIGHLY recommend that if you go this route you keep your XP image as clean as possible.
3 - USB speed is pretty close to running it native - from a eyeball perspective. Meaning, I didn't measure the rates between the two.

Questions ?? fire !

-Steve




LeeMorant

I got round the problem this way, I record in vista using sonarx64 via spdif and just use the vbox to set up sounds etc... to save me twiddling knobs.  This works for me anyway, until Roland actually realise that drivers are needed!

Elantric

Lee

What audio interface is working for you under Vista64.

LeeMorant

I'm recording fine from spdif into my soundblaster x-fi platinum spdif in using sonar 7 x64 all settings unchanged (wireless causes me a problem though so I disable that for recording).  Virtualbox is a letdown however as it loses connection with my VG99 as soon as I edit a small paramater such as guitar size or pickup, I'm guessing its more to do with Roland's software than virtualbox/vmware etc though!  So I will be editing patches via the box itself for the time being, how hard can it be to cobble some blinkin drivers together just so you could at least use the editor?  :-X

LeeMorant

At Last!!! I seem (crosses fingers) to have sussed how to keep a stable connection that allows correct operation!  What I did was uncheck the box for USB 2.0 in virtual box but leaving the first one checked!  Try It!

Elantric

Yes,  its correct The VG-99 is NOT a USB 2.0  high speed device.