Gr-55 + VoiceLive 3 + 2 iOS controllers - Help on choosing MIDI interface

Started by Toff., May 25, 2014, 06:04:21 PM

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Toff.

Alright, here is my current headache: I need to find a way to connect 2 controllers (iPad 2 + iPad 3 (or iPhone 5)) to my current gear (TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3 + GR-55)

The VL3 is already linked to the GR-55, so that I can use the former to drive the synth (as a midi pedal) via the 8 available ASSIGN.

Also, the VL3 receives the audio from the GR-55 via the AUX IN and acts as my mixer. Only the VL3 is plugged into the PA/console.
I would therefore LOVE being able to Modify the VL3 mix via an iOS device, without bending down while on stage.

My wish list:

  • Have a touch interface to modify both units' parameters in real time
  • Change programs on both units based on the current song (I use Onsong)

My problem:
I do not know which iOS interface would allow me to send MIDI to both units, and not from just 1 iOS device but 2.

What I am basically looking for is a "MIDI router than can integrate with iOS devices - without a computer in the mix".

EDIT:
I am investigating with MidiSolution devices, but can use any help you guys can spare.
They have a 1 to 2 router (http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrte.htm) but I am looking at 2 to 2 here.
This merger could be the solution: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodmrg.htm, as it merges 2 inputs into 1.
Simple, lightweight and MIDI-powered (no batteries or power point needed).

EDIT:
I read good reports on iConnectMIDI boxes here - what is the final status quo as of 2014 from our users?
This would look like the most robust way to go.



Notes:

a/
I know how to use Onsong to drive either the GR-55 or the VL3, same as SetList maker there is an ad-on for MIDI messages addition and it is quite straight forward.
Since all my songbooks have been converted to Onsong already and I do not use backing tracks, I am happy to stay with my current app.

b/
The reason for having 2 iOS-based controllers is that I'd rather avoid having to switch between apps in a live situation (on stage).
I already have 1 iPad hooked to my mic stand (iKlip mount) and can easily have a second iPad or my iPhone accessible on a separate stand.

EDIT: I absolutely do not mind a wired connection. I appreciate the added value of the Missing Link (over AU$200,00 here) + Touch OSC (and all the good work from Mark Begnini), but it is not mandatory at all. I am also contemplating TB MIDI Stuff and Lemur.

c/
I do not have a laptop I can use for gigs. I understand a computer would make this easier, but I cannot justify the cost of a new or 2nd hand device while I have plenty of iOS based hardware lying around.

d/
The VL3 has no MIDI THRU, so it won't transmit the GR-55 any information it receives from an external controller. (would have been the ideal situation for me).

e/
Since the 2 units are already connected I had to disable Program Change from the GR-55 so that it only responds to CC messages from the VL3.
I'll obviously have to re-activate it, and must fond a way to stop the VL3 from sending the PC (I'll investigate via the official support & community).

f/
Just to add to the pain, I live in Australia, therefore access to hardware is harder/longer/dearer than in the US or Europe :/


I welcome all suggestions :) I am probably chasing the impossible, but I have learnt it is smart to ask and it doesn't hurt.
There are plenty of very knowledgeable users around here, and I can imagine I am not the only one battling with windmills!
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Macciza

Hi

Go for the iConnectMIDI - definitely not vapourware - great product locally available via AudioChocolate
Think it is about the only product line offering connection to 2 iPads and also multiple MIDI out plus USB controller support . . .
Adding a controller would give access via CCs and assigns etc

For apps I would recommend Lemur as the most capable of the options - there are various GR55 projects already .  ..

I think you can do Program Change maps that might help keeps things aligned patch wise

Get yourself a cheap computer somehow - it will really help - doesn't need to be a laptop unless you meant it for gigging . . .

I'm in Aus too - Range of gear VG's 8,88,99; GR55 (had various earlier models); Use Lemur and iConnect plus various other controllers

Cheers
MM
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

Toff.

Thanks heaps mate :D

Yes, I meant the laptop for gigging.

I do have some computers (iMac, mac mini and a macbook pro) but I cannot use them for gigs and prefers no to anyway - From 2006 to 2011 I used to run Guitar Rig and various DAWs for backing tracks on my old Windows based machines, when on stage or doing solo work with (cafés and cruises), with the GR-20 for the Synth stuff, and had too many issues with stability (crashes) and even theft :/

I actually appreciate the box approach of the Roland and the VoiceLive for quick stage setup - I just open my pedalboard, plug the guitar in, the XLR to my mic and the main out to the console/PA. Voilà.
All self-contained and easy to move from venue to venue on the same night.

Otherwise I would have ditched the GR-55 in favour of a Fishman TriplePlay when that baby finally came out ^^


Lemur looks great and I did noticed there was a template for the GR-55 updated last year. The price range on the AU store places it in the
"pro" range.
Fabien seems to also have done good work on TB MIDI Stuff though, and his app is much cheaper.

If you have experience with the former, I am keen to follow your advice. I am sure I could edit template and monitor the messages I want then place them on the knobs & sliders I need, but if there is a good base to work from that is definitely great.


With regards to AudioChocolate, I am stumped!
I have been living in Melbourne for 6 years, 4 of which I worked at various places along Chapel St & South Yarra, but only just discovered these guys!?
Mandatory visit to Claremont St tomorrow...

Which product would you recommend? the iConnectMidi2 (http://www.iconnectivity.com/iConnectMIDI2plus)?
2 controllers, 2 out - And it recharges the devices as well - sweet :)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

PS: My comment re:vapourware was influenced, at the time, by the comments from the guys on the iConnectMidi4+ thread (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9050.0).

Back in April, they were still waiting. I missed the May updates and first impressions :)

Not sure I would need the USB host for my setup in the near future.
Things would change if I can hook up a FTP to my nylon strings (or get a pre-equipped guitar) and drive an external synth without a computer.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Macciza

No worries mate . . .
Re iConnect - they already had great product on the market before that, there were just some delays rolling out the new line . . .
The value of the USB MIDI port is that you can add something like a NanoKontrol in to give tactile knob/fader/button controls as well . ..
Have seen some good live setups with Mac Minis running semi-headless just a small screen/iPad for setup/troubleshoot purposes . . .

Personally and professionally I think Lemur is far better product with richer wider and deeper features, multiple output possibilities, programmability etc
Certainly have experience with both but primarily Lemur (Disclaimer- I am Moderator on their forum but not involved with the company)
Have done some Lemur dev for both VG and GR, - Amp controls, Patch selectors, Sensitivity/Nuance setting gui's etc Mainly for own use, should polish them up a bit
Its definitely a professional product and together with the iConnectMIDI provides a very comprehensive setup

The 2+ would work well with the setup you have though the 4+ would provide expansion possibilities and allow to also have your computer connected at the same time as the 2 iPads
I have the original iConnect and will probably get the 4+ for home setup and may eventually replace my current one with a 2+ for Live setup . . .
I pretty much only know Audio Chocolate from the net, being in Sydney myself . ..

Hope that helps
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

Toff.

Definitely helps :D
I value real feedback and peer reviews more than any marketing material I can read.

I agree, the 4+ is a better beast, especially if I wanted to move from the GR-55 to the FTP one day.
I read Elantric's posts about the 4+, and I agree the 2+ is basically the cheap little brother (it does less than the original iConnectMidi).

Still, for my need it would be perfect (and cheap) if only I can verify the following assumption:

  • The VL3 can still send CC messages to the GR-55 (iConnectMidi acting as a router).
This is important, as I use the VL3 as an external pedal to the GR-55 assigns. If the routing is not possible, and for some reason only the controllers on the USB can give orders to the MIDI connected units, I must start looking into splitting the OUT of the VL3 and merge the IN of the GR-55, which adds pain.

I am going to the shop this arvo and will check with them.

I have now almost confirmed the following:

  • I can have 2 iPads as controllers, plugged via USB - With no computer.
  • one can run Onsong and send Program Change messages to BOTH units connected via MIDI.
  • The other can run Lemur, Touch OSC or TBMidiStuff and send CC, Sysex etc. to BOTH units connected via MIDI.

With regards to choosing the controller app (Lemur or else), I will actually go with the one that has the best support in each community for the GR-55 and VL3.
Since I will need to create my own template/layout to manage both units (as I want to control the VL3 audio MIX if possible), I value the availability of information to do so.

Great to hear you are knowledgeable on Lemur and know their forum in & out ^^


Quote
... being in Sydney myself . ..
Nobody's perfect :P
(*joke*)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

Quote from: Macciza on May 26, 2014, 08:44:34 AM
Re iConnect - they already had great product on the market before that, there were just some delays rolling out the new line . . .

200% correct - I edited my OP as I noticed Google is now showing it in results with "vapourware" in the excerpt - which obviously I do not want.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Macciza

No wuckers matey

Probably best to get both - one can permanently live in your gig setup . .

Yep, will route messages anywhere, and even filter certain messages if you want . . .
Check out their docs and look at the PortManager app as well

Will certainly be able to help if you go with Lemur
Will polish up and repost some of my stuff soon . ..

Cheers
MM
QuoteNobody's perfect :P
Yeah I know, but its about as perfect as it gets when you only know AudioChocolate over the net . . . :P
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

Toff.

Quick update.

Just got the 2+, as it is much cheaper & the 4+ is still not available in Australia (something to do with the external power not ready until end of next month).
Everything just WORK (*yay*).

Confirming what you wrote about routing - The box manages all traffic and therefore I can still have the VL3 "talk" to the GR-55 - It was the logical expectation, but I have been hammered so many times by assumptions that I preferred asking prior to be sorry.

On the plus side: The VL3 (standard) USB port is able to charge the iConnectivity box ^^ (confirmed) so I do not need the charger until I really need to plug 2 ipads.
It is powered at present time in my pedal board with no issue.

Very happy :)
Thanks for your recommendation.

As a side note, the guys at Awave / Audio Chocolate could not have been more helpful and kind - I strongly recommend them to anyone wanting Synth and DJ gear.


Now comes the fun part, and getting my head around MIDI messages from the iPad to the 2 units.
Happy to check your existing templates for Lemur if you do not mind  ::)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

Sorry for over communicating, but that darn piece of hardware is amazing!

I know really nothing (yet) about midi routing or SySex but it took less than 1 mn to tell the iConnectMidi2+ to order my VL3 to stop sending Program Changes to the GR-55.

I love it ^^ :D
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Elantric

I got my iConnectMIDI 4+ 2 weeks ago, they are shipping now, and this is a great problem solver for me.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9050.0

Toff.

Quote from: Elantric on May 27, 2014, 09:29:26 AM
I got my iConnectMIDI 4+ 2 weeks ago, they are shipping now, and this is a great problem solver for me.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9050.0

Agree, and I will most certainly get it and re-sell the 2+ when it is available Down Under.

The 2+ was cheap enough for a leap of faith and discovering both the technology and how to setup, as well as confirming my assumptions.
If the 2+ is anything to measure iConnectivity and their products on, I have no issue moving to a bigger model and recommending them to fellow musos.

Then again, and I feel it is important, the 2+ probably exists because they identified a need for a smaller scale unit in a smaller market segment of the "old" iConnectMidi - the 2+ idoes everything I currently need (2 iOS controllers, 2 MIDI devices, routing, filtering and is lightweight (312g) in the pedal board - and sound is carried from the first iOS USB port).

While the 4+ does more (more devices, more ports, power adapter is standard not optional, USB host, a bit heavier (900+g) ...) I believe the 2+ has it's place - if anything, it shows iConnectivity maturity on this market.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Vade

@Toff; "I know really nothing (yet) about midi routing or SySex but it took less than 1 mn to tell the iConnectMidi2+ to order my VL3 to stop sending Program Changes to the GR-55."

I'm headed down a very similar road Toff, with the need to integrate IOS with Voicelive3 (VL3), midi foot control, and, in my case, Triple Play for midi synth activation; rather than the 13 pin route. I'm thinking the iconnectmidi4+, and it's great midi routing abilities, is going to be the key to melding all this gear into a workable mobile rig. Hopefully I'll be able to route backing tracks and softsynths out via the 1/8" headphone jack into the VL3 aux and from the VL3 to the PA etc. My VL3 arrives tomorrow and I'll finally be able to begin to start work on all this! I know you're very familiar with the VL3 forum but you might not have seen this thread which could be of help in getting a handle on the VL3 midi puzzle. Cheers!

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/43072466-Voice-Live-3-Set-List-Maker-on-iPAD-
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Toff.

Yay, good on ya for the VL3 + FTP!

I did see that thread for a while, but they mostly cover Program Change Messages from SetListMaker.app, so that the VL3 automatically loads the preset corresponding to the song chosen on the ipad, which is easy to setup. There is no need for SySex there.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Vade

Well I'm glad Setlist is easy to set up as I expect I'll be doing that at some point here. Good luck on your gear integration then and I'm looking forward to whatever you decide to post about how it all works together.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Toff.

Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Vade

Well I do think the ground must shake when some of the folks on this forum walk by and so thanks for the link Toff. I'm actually going to need to concern myself with routing first as well; just as you noted. So first up, I need to test out the new gear in various configurations. I'm not sure whether I'll be routing the VL3 guitar through my tube amp, PA, or perhaps a dark horse (a Crate 125d) which someone was kind enough to donate to the cause. I also need to get a feel for the vocal effects as well and see how well they'll work with my flute etc. Then there's the choice of the midi foot controller... Once i know what items I'll want to use then I'm hoping I can set a up a mobile rig that easily connects/disconnects from my home studio. It's going to be an interesting week:)
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Toff.

Quote from: Macciza on May 26, 2014, 08:44:34 AM
Disclaimer- I am Moderator on their forum but not involved with the company

Sorry to bother mate, but do you have ability to approve members by any chance?
I registered 5 days ago but still cannot post or reply - I wrote to them via the support system but not seen anything coming back yet.

Keen to ask the community there about some aspects and possibilities, prior to purchase the software :)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Macciza

Hi
I think you need to do a first post in the Introductions section before you can post elsewhere.
Though I may have just fixed that for you so it may just be fine...
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

Toff.

Cheers!

It never mentioned anything about the  intro section - I only received an ail to activate the account and letting me know an admin had to approve my profile before I could post.

But thanks heaps for your help - I'll check in the morning :)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+