Re: VG-99 - How to make your Guitar / Mix/ GK switch work on your guitar

Started by Elantric, March 06, 2008, 01:42:52 PM

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Machh_2

hello ...
an attitude may seem a bit rough and radical, but if not find a solution technique and "programmable" to this problem, do a search to find out if the VG can work without pin 9, if there is positive confirmation, I somehow nullify pin 9, on the VG or GK3, particularly, as I work with fixes in electronics, not think twice ...

[] 's

Weed_

Hello!

I know that there is already a similar topic, however I did not find the answer to my question in it, so I am asking for your help!
I have GK-3 pickup installed on my guitar, the first-GK position works fine, also second one-MIX is working when I adjust normal PU level on each VG-99 patch, but the third-GUITAR position does not give any sound at all. Since it works on MIX position, I really doubt that there is anything wrong with the pickup, and it also worked perfectly when I was using it with GR-55, so I must have missed some setting or something..?
Anyhow, if anyone has a clue or had a similar problem, please help, I would really like to get this to work..

Thanks!

Elantric

The first headache every new VG-99 / GR-55 owner may experience is getting the guitar mounted three way Guitar/Mix/GK Synth switch on his 13 pin preamp by Roland, RMC, Ghost, etc  to work !

Roland ships recent GK13 processors (VG-99, GR-55) with half baked "Factory presets" that lack proper support for GK-3 Three way mix switch. This is a major pain and every VG-99/GR-55 user who wants the GK-3 Three way mix switch to work must manually reprogram EVERY PRESET!
   
Roland ship great hardware bogged down by very sloppy Burned into ROM Factory presets that frankly should never have existed, Id gladly give them all up to free up more memory space for my own presets that allow the GK-3 Three way mix switch to actually work.
---

VG-99 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13.0

* How to use Normal PU sounds with the VG-99
Using a Strat with GK-3 as an example, be sure the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input. This is a crucial component as it provides a signal path to the VG-99 for your Normal pickups via the 13 pin cable,  and it effectively grounds the GK-3 to your guitar strings, to control noise, and safely protect you from shock hazards. .

To process your Normal Guitar Pickups with the VG-99,  the steps are:

1) Connect the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input.  Move the GK-3 switch to "Guitar".  Connect the 13pin cable between GK-3 and VG-99.

2) On the VG-99 , Press the "COSM GUITAR" switch.

3) Then press the Page button 6 times - which takes you to Page 6 and there's two knobs for mixing the "COSM Gtr" and "Normal PU" sound.

4) By default the VG-99's "Normal PU" Level control is set to zero, so turn it up to your taste, as you should begin to hear your Guitar you plugged in at Step #1. You may apply VG-99 COSM Amp Modeling processing to your Normal Guitar pickup signal, and combine these sounds with the COSM Guitar sounds.

5) Save your setting by writing to the patch in the User Patch Range.


Brent Flash


Weed_

Thanks Brent Flash, and thanks for the tip Elantric! But like I said, I tried this, and repeated it, but I can hear normal PUs only when the GK switch is in the middle-MIX position, the third GUITAR position functions as Killswitch at the moment..:(

Elantric

Under Settings, Be sure your "GK TYPE" matches your pickup type. If its a GK-3 - set to "GK-3"  - its very important.
and read here - you might have to back up all your VG-99 patches, then do a "Factory Reset"
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5293.0

Also - If you are trying to use the Gk 13 pin cable for your normal guitar on VG-99,  be sure nothing is plugged into the VG-99's "Guitar Input" jack!

and Brent Flash suggests:

When hooked up with the 13 pin the main problem most have is in the COSM GUITAR/MIX LEVEL/NORMAL PICKUP area, the normal volume defaults to zero, so you have to turn it up in the patch to hear it. If it is the GK switch you are having trouble getting to work that is an assign problem.

If it is the GUITAR IN [Jack] you can't get to work that is the GK SETTING/GK CONNECTION/ set to ON or OFF not AUTO.

Brent Flash

I know there is a lot of info to go through and that can take up a lot of time so I will attempt to cut your search time for a fix. There are a few things that can cause this so let me start by saying that every patch is not set up to use the normal pickup. When that is the case the normal pickup will not sound when set to that position. At least that is the way I am remembering how it works since I don't use the normal pickups hardly ever because they mess up alternate tunings. Anyway go into the COSM GUITAR section and turn up the NORMAL PICKUP level that usually defaults to 0. See if that will fix it for you.

Elantric

Another factor is the 3-way "Guitar / Mix / GK" switch never works in the Guitar position unless you have your  "GK VOL" assigned to control VG-99  "Master Volume"!
More here regarding this issue on the Roland US-20 A/B box thread:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3494.0

In Roland's infinite wisdom, they attempted to add a new feature exclusive to the GK-3 - this relates to Pin #9 on the 13 pin cable (Pin#9 is not connected on GK-2A, and all Ghost / RMC versions)

But on GK-3 and GK-3B  - Pin #9 outputs a very specific Control Voltage which modern post 2005 era Roland Products (VG-99, GR-55, etc) may use to interpret the current position of the 3-way "Guitar / Mix / GK" switch.


GK-3 (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK  = 1.56V / Mix =  1.04V / Guitar =  0.52V
GK-3B (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK  = 4.48V / Mix = 3.96V / Bass = 3.44V

The VG-99 interprets the GK-3's voltage change on  Pin 9 of the 13 pin cable:

When you switch the three way switch from Mix to Guitar, the VG-99 sends out MIDI CC#7, value 0.  When you switch from Guitar to Mix, it sends out CC#7, value 127.

The VG-99 is using these CC messages to Mute the "GK" COSM guitar off (when you select Guitar) and on (when you select Mix), but if you have other MIDI gear attached that also respond to MIDI CC messages  you may encounter some interesting conflicts, so be advised




and as I remember some VG-99 Factory presets do include a working GK-3 "Normal PU" with full controls.

But you are not alone in fighting this gear to obtain "Normal Guitar" processing.

Roland US-20 A/B Selector BUG (Importance of GK-VOL Assignment)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3494.0

Weed_

Thank you soo much!!! It was the GK VOL function! It seems that it only works when I set it to ?GUITAR VOLUME [A&B]?, did not found master volume, but it did not work on Mixer Level or Patch level.

I have one more question though :)
What would be the optimal setting for patch level now that I don't have Patch level assigned to GK VOL?

Thanks again!! ;D

Brent Flash

Quote from:  Weed_ on February 28, 2013, 11:57:56 AM
I have one more question though :)
What would be the optimal setting for patch level now that I don't have Patch level assigned to GK VOL?
This is just the way I do it. I leave PATCH LEVEL at 100. I do not use it for volume. I use FOOT VOLUME for volume.

Elantric

Weed - once you do get "Normal Guitar" working - be sure to hit  "Patch Save" !

Getting the "Normal Guitar" and the  "Guitar / Mix / GK" switch working across several patches can be daunting and downright aggravating.

I have wasted many Sundays trying to get this exact function to work (its particularly a struggle for me on the GR-55) - just when I thought I had all the parameters set right and all seems to work one weekend, then four days later i will powerup and find my "Normal Guitar" pickup no longer works. (uugh!)

Weed_

Lookin' foward to that sundays  ::)
Thanks again, this forum is great!

Elantric

The first headache every new VG-99 / GR-55 owner may experience is getting the guitar mounted three way Guitar/Mix/GK Synth switch on his 13 pin preamp by Roland, RMC, Ghost, etc  to work !

Roland ships recent GK13 processors (VG-99, GR-55) with half baked "Factory presets" that lack proper support for GK-3 Three way mix switch. This is a major pain and every VG-99/GR-55 user who wants the GK-3 Three way mix switch to work must manually reprogram EVERY PRESET!
   
Roland ship great hardware bogged down by very sloppy Burned into ROM Factory presets that frankly should never have existed, Id gladly give them all up to free up more memory space for my own presets that allow the GK-3 Three way mix switch to actually work.

==

* How to use Normal PU sounds with the VG-99
Using a Strat with GK-3 as an example, be sure the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input. This is a crucial component as it provides a signal path to the VG-99 for your Normal pickups via the 13 pin cable,  and it effectively grounds the GK-3 to your guitar strings, to control noise, and safely protect you from shock hazards. .

To process your Normal Guitar Pickups with the VG-99,  the steps are:

1) Connect the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input.  Move the GK-3 switch to "Guitar".  Connect the 13pin cable between GK-3 and VG-99.

2) On the VG-99 , Press the "Modeling Type" switch.

3) Then press the Page button 6 times - which takes you to Page 6 and there's two knobs for mixing the "COSM Gtr" and "Normal PU" sound.

4) By default the VG-99's "Normal PU" Level control is set to zero, so turn it up to your taste, as you should begin to hear your Guitar you plugged in at Step #1. You may apply VG-99 COSM Amp Modeling processing to your Normal Guitar pickup signal, and combine these sounds with the COSM Guitar sounds.

5) Save your setting by writing to the patch in the User Patch Range.

Set GK Connect to OFF, when you want the Normal Guitar Input to be Active, and set to AUTO ONLY if you have a genuine Roland GK-3 type pickup and want the VG-99 to switch to the GK 13 pin input anytime a 13 pin cable is inserted into the VG-99  as stated in the last paragraph below.



Next post is related to the above,
* Roland US-20 A/B Selector BUG (Importance of GK-VOL Assignment)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3494.0


And read this thread if you require both GK 13 and 1/4" input to be active
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1908.msg10683#msg10683

Set "GK Connect" to ON

mateomasfeo



I don't understand the last graphic E.  I cannot get the regular pickups to make a sound.  I use a GK3 and went down your list and followed the directions.

I had it working the other day, now the same patch doesn't work with regular pickups.  I'm about to throw this thing through the window...

To make matters worse, I got a BX-13-MICRO from Wayne (GK2a pickup type) and can't get it to work either.  I suppose that is what the last graphic in your answer refers to, but I am not fluent in Quasi English so maybe I am missing something.

Pickup volume turned up under COSM guitar.  Check.  With GK3 Guitar One, type set to AUTO.  Check.  Guitar cord plugged in.  Check.  Switch set to mix.  Check.  Nothing.

Pickup volume turned up under COSM guitar.  Check.  With GK2A Guitar Two, type set to OFF.  Check.  Cords plugged in.  Check.    Nothing.

I guess one has to be smarter than the machine.  I can see why they are dumbing it all down With the 10.

Oh well, I hardly use the regular pickup sound anyway - but it just irritates me that there is a function that I can't seem to use.  At least not all the time(?).

Yes I read the owners manual....

Thanks for any help - or - just throw a shoe at me and I will go away...

Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

Elantric

Read the Alternate instructions here

How to use Normal PU sounds and make the GK-3 3-way switch work with the VG-99
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8019.msg57043#msg57043

Elantric

QuoteTo make matters worse, I got a BX-13-MICRO from Wayne (GK2a pickup type) and can't get it to work either.  I suppose that is what the last graphic in your answer refers to, but I am not fluent in Quasi English so maybe I am missing something.


Might verify with Wayne if his "BX-13-MICRO" adapter when used with an older 24 pin Roland  / Ibanez Guitar supports the Normal MAG PU Signal being sent down GK13 Pin #7 -

http://www.joness.com/gr300/BX13.htm
\


FWIW - here is the old Roland BC-13 Schematic


mateomasfeo


He says it does and that I have to go into COSM guitar and turn up the mg pickup.  Check.  Nothing.

But what confounds me is that even without using Wayne's MICRO, and using a regular GK3, I still get NADA.

I checked the other thread.  What alternate instructions are you referring to?  Looked like the same ones.

Oh well...too much time trying to make it work - not enough time playing!  :)
Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

Elantric

Be sure that under GK Settings you have set "GK CONCT" to "OFF" - and remove the 13 pin cable when testing the 1/4" normal mag PU Input on the VG-99.




And read this thread if you require both GK 13 and 1/4" input to be active
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1908.msg10683#msg10683

Set "GK Connect" to ON

mateomasfeo


I have never had a problem using the 1/4 inch direct into the VG99.  Only when I attempt to use them both at the same time with a GK.

Thanks for trying E.  You and Wayne are like Gods....

;D
Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

Elantric

QuoteThanks for trying E.  You and Wayne are like Gods....

Actually I'm just a trapped mouse with time to kill ;)

mateomasfeo

OK - Got the Joness MICRO equipped G-505 with the GK2A pickup working by turning the GK Connection to OFF.  However, it only allows a mix of GK- MAG from the volume knobs on the guitar.  In other words, if I turn down the GK pickup all the way down on the guitar, the normal pickup is also silent.  Will experiment with the VOL assignments and see if that allows for a pure mag pickup sound.

As far as the GK3 issues, I have noticed that when the mag pickup is not coming through, sometimes if I restart the VG99 it will suddenly start working.

This thing is more of a Beast than my GR300 EVER was! :o
Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

mbenigni


Wallbagner123

Hello!

Iv'e been reading  thru  these settings for the gk-3  setup with a vg-99 to get the  normal guitar Pu to work and i noticed that  something  is wrong  with the instructions.

I have been checking  the  button assignments on the vg-99   and i can't find the  "Modeling Type"   switch or button   nowhere to be seen!.

thanks.
Jp!
:( ???



"To process your Normal Guitar Pickups with the VG-99,  the steps are:

1) Connect the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input.  Move the GK-3 switch to "Guitar".  Connect the 13pin cable between GK-3 and VG-99.

2) On the VG-99 , Press the "Modeling Type" switch.

3) Then press the Page button 6 times - which takes you to Page 6 and there's two knobs for mixing the "COSM Gtr" and "Normal PU" sound."

Elantric

VG-99 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13.0

* How to use Normal PU sounds with the VG-99
Using a Strat with GK-3 as an example, be sure the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input. This is a crucial component as it provides a signal path to the VG-99 for your Normal pickups via the 13 pin cable,  and it effectively grounds the GK-3 to your guitar strings, to control noise, and safely protect you from shock hazards. .

To process your Normal Guitar Pickups with the VG-99,  the steps are:

1) Connect the short 1/4" inch cable is installed between the Strat's normal output jack, and GK-3's  1/4" Guitar Input.  Move the GK-3 switch to "Guitar".  Connect the 13pin cable between GK-3 and VG-99.

2) On the VG-99 , Press the "COSM GUITAR" switch.

3) Then press the Page button 6 times - which takes you to Page 6 and there's two knobs for mixing the "COSM Gtr" and "Normal PU" sound.

4) By default the VG-99's "Normal PU" Level control is set to zero, so turn it up to your taste, as you should begin to hear your Guitar you plugged in at Step #1. You may apply VG-99 COSM Amp Modeling processing to your Normal Guitar pickup signal, and combine these sounds with the COSM Guitar sounds.

5) Save your setting by writing to the patch in the User Patch Range.


Wallbagner123

Hello, Again!!  sorry for the previous message  i have  found the  Modeling type  switch!!  i just recently baught this unit  and still learning all the features.

looks like i will be spending a lot of time  updating all the user presets  to make the  guitar Pu's  to work  with the  gk-3

Thanks again, for the infomation!

Jean-pierre

:D