GR-55 - No Hex Distortion????

Started by Vgunn, June 11, 2011, 04:21:09 AM

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Vgunn

Arrrgh. 

Is there really no hex fuzz on this thing?

I just assumed that any Roland Synth of this type would have that in there like it was on the first one I got about 30 years ago??

Did they *really* leave that one off??

I must just be missing it somehow.

Jim Williams

Try using some of the PCM distortion and overdrive electric guitars, they might give you that hexiphonic fuzz sound.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Elantric

#2
On the GR-55 Hex Fuzz is referred to as "Hexa-Distortion and is now called "ANALOG GR"

Choose Guitar model 18: ANALOG GR

This is the sound of a classic analog polyphonic guitar (bass) synthesizer. It provides hexa-distortion, with a hexa-VCO and VCF (variable frequency filter) that generates independent pitch-shiftable sawtooth waves for the six strings, letting you enjoy analog synthesizer sounds that reflect the nuances of your guitar or bass performance.
To change the pitch, use "PITCH A/B" (p. 36).

Vgunn

Thanks elantric.  I did eventually discover model 18. 

It is pretty cool but it seems to me like it is not really the same effect as the old hex distortion.  It is very similar mind you but not the *same*.  That is not to say that it is not as good, it is actually way better and more flexible than the old hex distortion in some ways and last night I got some sounds of it that were getting me just plain pumped.

Unfortunately there is a sound that the older versions did that so far at least I have not quite been able to get out of this.  With older versions I was able to get a very credible facsimile of multiple guitars playing harmonies and I am not really hearing *that particular thing* out of this effect.

I will keep working on it I guess.

aliensporebomb

Appears the VG-99 has the hex sound I used to have in my old GR-100 (I even created a patch, "Pod's Old GR-100") for a very specific tune I haven't played in years.

Good to hear the 55 kinda-sorta has it.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Vgunn

Yeah but, it really doesn't even sort of have it.  What is there is basically the synth function of the old synths and though that is fantastic and it works way better than it ever did back in the old days, it is really a separate and distinctly different sounding function altogether than the hex distortion that was there in everything up to and including the VG-99.

dadonaldd

In Model 18 (GR) there is a parameter called "Mode" with 3 possible values: VCO, V+D, and DIST. Try DIST, and I think you'll be pretty happy. I used to have a GR-100, too, and I actually like this better, since I installed Richard McClish's RMC Opt-01 subsonic filter.

Hope that helps!
"The purest form of music is that made by raw electrons driven by the heart of man." - DINgadget: art + science

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Vgunn on June 11, 2011, 10:58:15 PM
Yeah but, it really doesn't even sort of have it.  What is there is basically the synth function of the old synths and though that is fantastic and it works way better than it ever did back in the old days, it is really a separate and distinctly different sounding function altogether than the hex distortion that was there in everything up to and including the VG-99.

So it's more like a GR-300 hexa fuzz than a GR-100 hexa fuzz? (I always thought they were distinctly different, I have the tapes I made with my old rig and my ears tell me that).

I still plan on re-recording a track that the hexa fuzz sound was absolutely key in.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Vgunn

Quote from: aliensporebomb on August 30, 2011, 06:56:48 PM
So it's more like a GR-300 hexa fuzz than a GR-100 hexa fuzz? (I always thought they were distinctly different, I have the tapes I made with my old rig and my ears tell me that).

I still plan on re-recording a track that the hexa fuzz sound was absolutely key in.

I simply would not call it a hex fuzz.  It isn't one at all, it is a saw tooth or square wave synth.  With a hex fuzz you have the options of doing all kinds of analog guitar stuff that you do not have at all with this modeled synth sound, like for example playing harmonics, or even hearing the harmonic complexities of a guitar string and the polyphonic feedback stuff that happens with a real hex fuzz, etc. 

It is annoying that they did not include the hex fuzz functionality in the first place, but it is *really* annoying that they try and pass this totally different thing off as hex fuzz.  It is not a bad sound in itself, the problem is that it is not the thing they are claiming it to be nor is it a satisfactory replacement.

dadonaldd

It's been so long since I had my GR-100, I can hardly remember what it sounded like, sorry.

There is maybe another way to get to what you're after, if you have (or can obtain) a Boss WP-20g - it's one of the discontinued two-pedal things that Boss put out about 10 or 15 years ago - it's touted by some as being a guitar synth, because it requires a GK-equipped guitar with a 13-pin input, but in reality, it's just modifying the hexaphonic guitar signal - the square wave and the sawtooth wave are actually just two different types of hex fuzz, if I am not mistaken. I got one on eBay for $75, they pop up there from time to time. Otherwise, I'd try editing the GR-300 patch on the GR-55 - I'll bet you could get it really close, if not perfect - and in the mix, it'd probably be indistinguishable.

Hope you get it solved... I'd be interested in hearing how it turns out.
"The purest form of music is that made by raw electrons driven by the heart of man." - DINgadget: art + science

Elantric

#10
For the purists,  The original 1981 era Roland Guitar Synth Hex Fuzz was an analog circuit built into the G-303/G-808 guitar's internal hex preamplifier PC  board with  24 pin output. A different Hex Fuzz type was employed on the Roland G-202 (sold with the  GR-100) which offered additional compression with the hex fuzz (known as "Mode 3") .

G-303/G-202 Schematics are available and a clever DIY person could build the circuit into a pedal with 13 pin I/O inserted in front of the GR-55.


Or adapt  the RC1324 into your needs


http://www.joness.com/gr300/RC13.htm


More details here
http://www.joness.com/gr300/GR-300.htm

See the reference for "DPT SIG" on the Schematic below - this is the "Hex Fuzz" output.


Vgunn

Quote from: Elantric on September 01, 2011, 06:39:00 AM
The original 1981 era Roland Guitar Synth Hex Fuzz was an analog circuit built into the G-303 guitar's internal hex preamplifier PC  board with  24 pin output.
Buy one of those used along with a Roland BC-13 24 pin to 13 pin adapter and you will have the old Hex Fuzz.

Don't have to do all that.  Just get a VG-99, or VG-88, or VG-8.  They all have it.  I opened this thread with the comment that this was the first of the modern modeling type synths, that did *not* have this function.  I really do not understand why they left it off, but I guess they had their reasons, still again it does not help to just rename a synth patch "hex fuzz" and then say "see it's there".  I have a VG-99 actually so I can get the sound.  But the point of this box to me is to have everything in one compact unit.  I do not have a car, I basically bring my stuff to gigs on the trains.  Little is good, for me.  But even if transportation was not an issue simple is good.  I absolutely hate complex sprawling guitar rigs and one of the things I *love* about the GR-55 is that it pretty much has it all in one small simple package.

"All" that is except for  decent hex fuzz, (for some damned reason).

Elantric

#12
QuoteJust get a VG-99, or VG-88, or VG-8.  They all have it.
True - but in a post A2D DSP format, and not pure analog hex fuzz as used in the original 1980 GR-300

On the GR-55,  this is as close to "Hex Fuzz" as you can get - follow these steps


On the GR-55 Hex Fuzz is referred to as "Hexa-Distortion and is now called "ANALOG GR"

Choose Guitar model 18: ANALOG GR

This is the sound of a classic analog polyphonic guitar (bass) synthesizer. It provides hexa-distortion, with a hexa-VCO and VCF (variable frequency filter) that generates independent pitch-shiftable sawtooth waves for the six strings, letting you enjoy analog synthesizer sounds that reflect the nuances of your guitar or bass performance.
To change the pitch, use "PITCH A/B" (p. 36).

aliensporebomb

You guys have no idea how much I miss this thing:



G-202 with GR-100 produced a sound not heard very often especially mixed in with regular guitar thru my analog rig - you had the creamy regular type distortion but the clarity and "synthyness" of the GR sound as well. 

I actually have lots of tapes of my old rig so I never forgot it really.  The other thing:  the G-202 was a really nice GUITAR just as a guitar.  Like a souped up Ibanez Roadstar with hex circuits.
I often wonder who has this rig today?  Someone got a deal that's for sure.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: dadonaldd on September 01, 2011, 06:23:43 AM
It's been so long since I had my GR-100, I can hardly remember what it sounded like, sorry.

There is maybe another way to get to what you're after, if you have (or can obtain) a Boss WP-20g - it's one of the discontinued two-pedal things that Boss put out about 10 or 15 years ago - it's touted by some as being a guitar synth, because it requires a GK-equipped guitar with a 13-pin input, but in reality, it's just modifying the hexaphonic guitar signal - the square wave and the sawtooth wave are actually just two different types of hex fuzz, if I am not mistaken. I got one on eBay for $75, they pop up there from time to time. Otherwise, I'd try editing the GR-300 patch on the GR-55 - I'll bet you could get it really close, if not perfect - and in the mix, it'd probably be indistinguishable.

Hope you get it solved... I'd be interested in hearing how it turns out.

I know where there is one of these in town (WP-20G).  I had no idea it was the hex fuzz-with-waveforms in a box.  OK might have to abscond with it then - the store will never sell it otherwise.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Vgunn

Quote from: Elantric on September 01, 2011, 08:02:51 AM
On the GR-55,  this is as close to "Hex Fuzz" as you can get - follow these steps


On the GR-55 Hex Fuzz is referred to as "Hexa-Distortion and is now called "ANALOG GR"

Choose Guitar model 18: ANALOG GR

This is the sound of a classic analog polyphonic guitar (bass) synthesizer. It provides hexa-distortion, with a hexa-VCO and VCF (variable frequency filter) that generates independent pitch-shiftable sawtooth waves for the six strings, letting you enjoy analog synthesizer sounds that reflect the nuances of your guitar or bass performance.
To change the pitch, use "PITCH A/B" (p. 36).


But don't play any pinched harmonics or do any of the harmonic evolving feed back stuff or expect the absolute glitch free instant analog type response that you would get from a real hex fuzz that in other words might be the reason you were setting up the patch in the first place...

Analog GR is a fine modeled synth tone but it is NOT a replacement for a real hex fuzz.

drjoness2001

The WP-20G is not hex fuzz. It does not do anything that the GR-55 or VG-99 already do. Its settings are "Saw Lead" "Square" "Ring Mod" "Slow Gear" "Sitar" and "Acoustic."

At the time it came out, I recall thinking it was much more like a stripped down VG-88.

THE BEST hex fuzz sound I have heard in ages comes from the VG-99: in the Poly FX section, there is a Poly Distortion, i.e. Hex Fuzz. It has five kinds of hex fuzz: from traditional overdrive to straight out fuzz. plus drive, tone shaping, etc. This is a killer hex fuzz, plus you can process it through additional fx in the VG-99.

The GR-55 does not have this feature, but I would recommend this VG-99 feature for anyone looking to get GR-100/GR-300 tones. Plus. on the VG-99, you can do one channel of Poly Distortion, and have the second channel playing a virtual GR-300 set to distortion only (hex fuzz). Delay one channel slightly, plus small offset tuning, and you have a monster, fat, stereo hex fuzz sound that's pretty symphonic and sweet.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: drjoness2001 on September 01, 2011, 10:50:17 PM

[snip]

THE BEST hex fuzz sound I have heard in ages comes from the VG-99: in the Poly FX section, there is a Poly Distortion, i.e. Hex Fuzz. It has five kinds of hex fuzz: from traditional overdrive to straight out fuzz. plus drive, tone shaping, etc. This is a killer hex fuzz, plus you can process it through additional fx in the VG-99.

The GR-55 does not have this feature, but I would recommend this VG-99 feature for anyone looking to get GR-100/GR-300 tones. Plus. on the VG-99, you can do one channel of Poly Distortion, and have the second channel playing a virtual GR-300 set to distortion only (hex fuzz). Delay one channel slightly, plus small offset tuning, and you have a monster, fat, stereo hex fuzz sound that's pretty symphonic and sweet.

That's exactly what I do!  I always wanted a US-2 unit selector and a GR-300 so I could run my GR-100 with the 300 and now I can do it virtually with much less cost involved!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin

#18
QuoteTHE BEST hex fuzz sound I have heard in ages comes from the VG-99: in the Poly FX section, there is a Poly Distortion, i.e. Hex Fuzz.

Its my understanding the new Boss GP-10 shares this VG-99 feature too 

Or
Roland GR-D  $99 at Musician's Friend.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/roland-v-guitar-distortion-effects-pedal

Details on GR-D and GR-S ( with pitfalls and caveats) are here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7250.0

Elantric

For those seeking hex Fuzz - Consider the

SpiceTone 6Appeal = Hex Fuzz, MIDI Controller, Poly LFO Source

This can Add Poly Hex Distortion to any 13pin V-Guitar processor
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12104.0









Bill Ruppert


sixeight

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 01, 2019, 06:00:47 PM
That was fun to watch!

Absolutely. Great to see some in depth content on the good old VG-99 and the GP-10 after all these years.
If the color control on the GR-D would have been on 100%, like it was on the other processors, the sounds would have been even more similar.

I was suprised that the GP-10 did sound different to the VG-99, but as one does not have control over the guitar model before the poly distortion, something funky could be added in there.