Getting ATG-1 for an upcoming musical

Started by carlb, September 04, 2016, 11:23:39 AM

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carlb

Leave it to an upcoming gig to get me thinking of the optimum gear for the job ...

I'll be playing finger-pick acoustic and mandolin for a staging of "The Spitfire Grill." I'm listening to the guitar parts, and most are those types where it's critical to have a completely in-tune dreadnaught steel-string sound. With a drop-d  and open-g tuning here and there.

Although I've pulled acoustic off multiple times before, each time there's some anxiety about the somewhat more difficult play of an acoustic and playing it in-tune. I'm guessing many here know the feeling. "Live, without a net. Any finger fumbling to completely detract from the vocalist."

Which got me to thinking - why not use my great playing 13-pin guitar, into an ATG-1? No slightly-off sounding open chords and fewer chances for finger-fumbles? I'm guessing the result will be better sound and confidence.

So, I've taken advantage of our ATG-1 group buy. Looking forward to receiving it and working up the patches for the songs.

Any thoughts from current owners on how to get the most and best out of it? Thanks.



ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

With the ATG-1 you picked the perfect tool for the job

carlb

You guys are the ones who sold me on it. It really does seem a perfect fit.

Has anyone done mandolin modeling with it? I'm thinking I'll also use the real mando, but on the other hand it would be simpler to just use the one guitar ...
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

mooncaine

We've met at least 1 pit guitarist here before who used similar gear (Roland VGs I believe). Making those rapid changes from one instrument to another: that's where these virtual guitar rigs with polyphonic pickups really shine.

I did a much simpler show with a VG (I mean, not pro-level and not complicated), and it sure was handy to keep one guitar in hand, switch instantly from acoustic to electric, and keep my spot as only guitarist in the show.

I'm interested in your experiences with the ATG and how it works out for you.

If you don't need open strings on the mando parts, you can play far up the neck, where the tone from the strings will more closely model a mando, and the feel will be shorter and tighter.

carlb

I'll let you know how I get on with the ATG-1. This gig will be in November, I'm glad to have time to work up voicings, a bit of finger-picking, and the new gear.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

carlb

#5
I have the unit now, and have had an hour here and there to play with it.

1) Glad it fits snugly in a Gator GK-2110 gig bag. Happy coincidence, I have one.
2) Using RMC hex piezo setup, set the unit to "Piezo," no further guitar settings (besides padding).
3) With 0db input padding, was getting a few pitch "warbles" here and there. Dropped to -6dB (nothing in-between 0dB and -6dB on the ATG-1), and warbles are gone.
4) Don't like playing with the strings even slightly out of tune. The SH-575 has just enough acoustic volume to make things slightly weird feeling.
5) No built-in tuner function (unless I'm missing it), so I'm getting a small headstock tuner and will use that to keep the guitar in-tune.
6) Missing the EQ, delay, reverb, compression, etc., features of the GP-10 and VG-99. Might not want to go directly into a FRFR speaker setup from the ATG-1.
7) For the piezo RMC pickups, the acoustic guitar models sound very ... piezo-ey. Think Willie Nelson's live guitar, or "Angel from Montgomery" live. I may need to put something on the output of this box. The GP-10 acoustic emulations are much better to my ears, at least for piezo input pickups.
8 ) I VERY much like having the guitar in-tune no matter the fingering and neck position. Critical for acoustic sounds with mixed fretted and open strings.
9) The open tunings work just like you think they should. No "warbles," even on harmonics. (Harmonics being the "sure-fire-warbles" for the GP-10.)
10) Still learning the controls. I'll start saving patches toward the musical tomorrow.

So far, the "in-tune" part is keeping me toward keeping the pedal toward the gig.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

#6
There are 3 types of Acoustics , use the PU selector to choose among the three

The most irritating aspect is no tuner, coupled with the focus of how they like to demonstrate the ATG-1's Abilities by having a completely out of tune guitar as the demonstrator

The best aspect is the real time corrections for intonation and all chords play "in tune"

But I can feed ATG -1 out into a genuine Tube Amp or a Kemper and the ATG-1's  DSP Electric guitar Models ( Strat , Humbucker, Lipstick Danelectro do all sound genuine with more dynamic range and authentic tones compared to most DSP modeling systems  (Strat sounds like a Strat)   

carlb

Steve, I do like the electric models, they are quite good to my ears.

The most appropriate of the ATG-1's acoustic models for my purpose is the dreadnought. But even that sounds too much like piezo bridge generated - which of course it is. But I've a few patches on the GP-10 now that are just excellent for a "real dreadnought" sound.

We'll see. I'm web searching to see if there might be something appropriate to put on the output of the ATG-1 for an acoustic tone. Don't like what I'm hearing from the "acoustic simulators" so far. But those all seem to be demoed with single coil pickups. I don't know what they'd do for a "piezo-ey" guitar tone ...
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Majiken

I just received an ATG-1 to test, with the intention of getting a luthier kit once I am convinced I like the models and the tunings enough more than the GP-10 to merit its purchase.

I've spent the better part of this day with it, and I will definitely order the luthier kit, as I perceive it built into my '76 Electra MPC 330 will give me what I hoped to get with a JTV 59 a couple of years ago. I am happier with it in a guitar, since all it does is essentially guitar-related and I can treat it as such without sacrificing footprint.

I totally agree with the last couple of posts regarding tuner/tuning the real strings, etc. I have the old 3.01 software and since I'm giving it back can't say anything about GK3 control, etc., but I am reading your experiences with great interest.

I started off without even calibrating, just plug and play, and was amazed at both how well it performed straight out of the box and how much better it got when I finally did sit down and do a proper setup ('92 PRS CE24 with GK-3). The big difference for me to the GP-10 is the lack of warbling and the feel- it just feels more natural to play- I've got a good acoustic sound or two which I plan to post shortly, but with the GP10 it's somewhat more like the "playing with gloves on" feeling ( but less pronounced) than what Line6 equipment used to feel like. Notable exceptions are Autana's nylons, which are nothing short of brilliant and prove that it CAN be done with the GP-10.

Carlb, just for a whim, how about changing your global setting from piezo to magnetic and fool around with the settings like individual string volumes and tonal offset? Could take some of the sting out... of course, it might also ruin any other modeled instruments you might want to use... I play mandolin too, will see if I can come up with an ATG variant; I will capo for sure, because at least for me any pitch shift of much more than one whole step starts sounding artificial.
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

admin

Thanks for the review!


The Antares ATG system does make owning one of these redundant

http://www.phantomguitars.com/mando.html

mooncaine

Quote from: Majiken on September 17, 2016, 02:14:06 PMI am reading your experiences with great interest.

I also read all of your Antares Auto-Tune Guitar experiences with great interest, whether the floor pedal or the kit. I'm fascinated.

carlb

#11
Steve, I may have found the right box to put after the Antares for acoustic tones. I have one of these Xvive "Mike" pedals on the way for Monday, I'll let you know what I think:

https://vimeo.com/148458076.

I've picked up two of the following, one for the guitar, one for the mando. These are working great, given that I want to keep the guitar pretty well in-tune even with auto-tune (no tuner on the Antares), and the GP-10 doesn't have a tuner for the 1/4" input jack (at least that I've found).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FKF1PY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Majiken, I'll try the magnetic pickup input global, to see what that does for an acoustic tone. For Mando, the Antares might not let you do custom alt-tuning to do the octave-up and doubled G-D-A-E. I could be wrong, I'm still learning the box. So far, I'm just seeing support for the "usual" alt-tunings, some minor ones, and some split guitar/bass tunings.

Admsustaniac: I HAVE an octave-guitar and love it. But yah, unless you're a purist (I can't afford to be), the Antares does one these in a heartbeat for a gig. Well, not exactly ... The doubled strings E-D are an octave-up on the Antares, but unison on the octave-guitar. I'm not sure the Antares gives you the custom alt-tuning to setup an exact 12-string octave-guitar.

Had some more time this evening to play with it. I put the Antares 1/4" out into the GP-10 1/4" input. With some EQ-ing, compression, etc., I'm liking it much better. But sill, I hope the Xvive Mike just clinches it.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Majiken

Carlb, I don't see a way to get it out of the box either, I'm hoping the editor will provide the functionality that is surely possible.  In that regard the GP10 is IMHO really good; I would be really disappointed not to get unisono doublings out of the ATG.

I use a TC BodyRez to take the zing out of some of my piezos for live use- that might be similar to the "Mike" device, but if "Mike" offers presets it would be more versatile. I do like the BodyRez, might be a potential alternative.
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Majiken

Update: just tried the Body-Rez after the ATG, and it works no magic- but note that I am using a GK3, and hear no piezo chirp in the first place.

Be interested to hear how the "Mike" works for you!
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

carlb

#14
I'll definitely report what I find.

If you find anything out about the editor toward custom tunings and doublings, definitely post that too ...

Update: I tried the magnetic pickup setting (versus the piezo setting) last night. Made the output more fat/muddy/hot but the piezo "plinkies" are still there. I'm hoping that some setting on the Xvive Mike will do the trick. Although if it's just a pre-canned EQ box (which I'm starting to suspect it is), it likely won't  help. The Xvive arrives today, I'll play with it this evening.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

carlb

If the Xvive Mike doesn't work out ... I'm reading good things about the Boss AC-3 when fed with a Strat neck pickup. So, simulate a Strat neck pickup with the Antares, then feed that into the AC-3. I'll be using the GP-10 for EQ, etc., so I'll guess I can tame the hiss that those are noted for.

Hey, I should report I'm noticing a *few* warblies from the ATG-1 for alternate tunings, but nothing near with the GP-10. Completely useable for drop-d and open-g.

Acoustic instruments really "showcase" intonation issues, finger pressure/pull issues, and being even the slightest bit out of tune. The ATG-1 simply eliminates all of that.

If it could just solve my fingering/picking flubs, heh.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

#16
I'm happy with the Acoustic tones of the ATG-1

but an 8 year old Zoom A2.1u is an Acoustic Guitar swiss army knife that falls under the radar  - I'll try to find to time to try it with ATG-1 and report back

the  Zoom A2.1u can even deliver dobro tones 
https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_A21u.pdf


Majiken

I've got an old Korg AX10A that wasn't bad either, including reso & nylon plus some Chorus, echo & reverb, even with a tuner and built-in pedal! It was meant to be used with acoustic piezos and blended in as required.  Now why didn't I think of that before? My ATG-1 is packed up to send back, but I can put it on the back end of the GP10 just to see how it works.

I was also surprised that the warblies didn't totally disappear on the ATG-1, but it is indeed noticeably better than the GP10- and you can let the notes decay normally......
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

carlb

#18
The Xvive Mike does have a setting or two that makes the output pretty good to my ears, given some EQ from the GP-10.

The next step is to see if I can bring the EQ, clean amp settings, and compression of the GP-10 alone, to match the sounds I'm getting from Xvive with EQing.

It can be such a subjective and tail-chasing process though. More of this, less of this. Slide this scoop around to see where the honk gets addressed best, adjust the Q and depth of the cut, etc.

And then you come back the next day and think, "huh? This doesn't sound good ..."

Update: I came back to it tonight, I think I've got it. Turned off all effects (including amp model), just the ATG-1 input to the GP-10's 1/4" input. Then started working with the EQ on the GP-10. If I remember a relatively narrow cut at 1.6kHz against the piezo "chirp." Pretty narrow boost of moderate size at 8 or 10kHz for the right top end. A bit of a cut at either 500Hz or 630Hz, then a bit of bump on the bass side.

Then added a bit of modest compression (Boss modeled), and ... I think this might be "it." Added bonus: almost unnoticeable hiss.

I'll listen to it again tomorrow, see if I still think the same.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker