Blackstar ID:60 Combo - Very impressive!

Started by vtgearhead, September 22, 2016, 06:00:06 PM

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vtgearhead

So far, I really like this amp.  The modeling sounds incredibly convincing with very little bee-tone and realistic intermodulation effects when multiple strings are played.  I tried the Elantric test for s/n ratio and it passes with flying colors!  An A chord struck at high-gain sustains out like the real thing, then fades off to nothing with no audible artifacts.  I'd read a fair number of complaints about the noise gate, but they must have fixed this with a firmware update since there's no sign of misbehavior on tail-outs.

Elantric

#1
I assume its same as this TD:60 TVP Model?

https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/id60-tvp

Wish it had an FX Loop - but glad to hear your positive tone experience.

vtgearhead

Quote from: Elantric on September 22, 2016, 06:23:36 PM
I assume its same as this TD:60 TVP Model?

https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/id60-tvp

Yup, that's the one.

Quote
Wish it had an FX Loop - but glad to hear your positive tone experience.

Ah, but it does have an EFX loop!  The stereo line out / MP3 in jack pair can be repurposed as mono pre-out / power-amp-in using their Insider GUI tool.  Took a little digging in the manual to ferret out that information.

supernicd

Snhirsch - it appears you have both a Katana and a Blackstar TVP amp. Any thoughts on how they stack up side by side?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

vtgearhead

A bunch of rambling thoughts:

The Blackstar is a mostly-closed cabinet with more volume than Katana, so low end is a bit more extended.  Fit and finish on the Blackstar is better, but I'd expect that for the sizable price difference.  The Blackstar has 5-pin MIDI built-in, but again you pay for it.  BTS is simpler to use than Blackstar Insider.  The latter is documented only with hand-waving and unhelpful graphics and to this day I'm not confident I know what's going to happen when I attempt to save settings.  Their UI designers need a trip to the woodshed, IMHO, but I hate 95% of the UIs out there so it may be a generational thing.  Published Katana MIDI API is very meager.  Most of the things you'd like to get at require sysex and we are still picking that apart.  Blackstar exposes everything as CC values and it's completely documented.

Oh, soundwise, you ask?  Katana is just more "tube-y" in its behavior, particularly the way it emulates output stage + power supply dynamic compression.  Blackstar does a bit better at sounding like a clean black-face Twin (nice crystal brightness), but it's not an enormous difference.  For extreme overdrive (which in the interests of full disclosure I use only rarely) the Blackstar seems better behaved.  But, again, not a huge difference.  The Katana 'crunch' sound blows the doors off anything you can wrangle out of the ID:60.  The latter does not allow you to go from clean to lead on the guitar volume control.  If you dial in a good moderately overdriven lead sound at the high end, it retains too much "hair" at lower settings. Katana cleans up like my old Marshall 50 head used to, but without the odd dramatic moment when you flip on plate voltage just before the first set in a packed club.

If I was marooned on a desert island (w/ AC power available, mind you) and could take only one, I'd choose Katana.  Not sure I'm going to keep the ID:60.

supernicd

Thanks snhirsch - that's actually quite helpful.

I have an ID:10.  I like it for what it is, which is a small practice amp I can easily move anywhere with 0 fuss.  The tone is inspiring at bedroom levels.  Earlier this week I tried for the first time to connect it up to the Insider software, just to check it out and see if it might give me access to the missing EQ on the ID:10's panel.  I have to admit my Insider experience has been pretty poor.  It won't connect at all.  Having to deal with email only support from Korg who are just sending me suggestions for things I have already tried.  I'm actually pretty sure the USB port is faulty, but it will probably take 15 more emails to get to that.  I've never had a single problem connecting a Roland/Boss product up or using the software editor.

I will say generally though that I'm not a fan of the widespread trend to make certain features only available via a computer.  I do like computer editors as a convenience.  My crystal ball says computer technology will continue to change, and having computer editor access only to some features seems like planned obsolescence.  That and if you spontaneously decide somewhere that you want to change something that's not available via the panel in a live setting, and you don't carry a computer around you're kind of SOL.

I'm glad to hear the crunch sounds and just breaking up type tones are good.  That's where I spend a lot of my time and I think is often the most disappointing aspect of modelers. 

I guess for anyone who reads this and has a Katana, do you find the number of available presets limiting at all?  These days I find myself going more back to basics, trying to do more to control tone with guitar controls and my fingers.  I don't need 5,000 or even 100 presets.  But 4 (and each being dedicated to a given channel/voice) seems a bit chintzy from a real time control perspective.  I could see that being more of a paper perception than it is real, though.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

vtgearhead

Quote from: SuperNiCd on December 10, 2016, 09:43:49 AM
I will say generally though that I'm not a fan of the widespread trend to make certain features only available via a computer. 
Yes, especially because Fender provides a nice deep-editing capability out of the box in their $329 amp.
Quote
I guess for anyone who reads this and has a Katana, do you find the number of available presets limiting at all?  These days I find myself going more back to basics, trying to do more to control tone with guitar controls and my fingers.  I don't need 5,000 or even 100 presets.  But 4 (and each being dedicated to a given channel/voice) seems a bit chintzy from a real time control perspective.  I could see that being more of a paper perception than it is real, though.
It's definitely limiting.  That's why some of us are working on reverse engineering of the sysex protocol used between BTS and the Katana.  No firm implementation plans yet, but safe to say there'd be a means of mapping MIDI CC values to parameters in the Katana and/or associating PC with custom "scenes".  When you switch to a scene it would fire off a sequence of sysex commands (could include changing effects types, routing, tone... sky's the limit).  If the response to the commands is quick enough it will make up for the shortage of built-in preset slots.

nagual

Old topic, but found interesting to warning potential buyers/users...

Here's my experience...

So, looking all the hype about Blackstar ID60 TVP, listening a LOT of good and less good quality videos on YouTube, I decide to buy it (with footswitch)

WHAT A MISTAKE !!!!!!

This amp just don't work good, it's a expensive and sound like sh*t, no matter what settings or guitar I use...
Using pedal is nightmare, sound is harsh, tiny, muddy....
I was really disappointed...

Try with several guitars - Gibson SG Standard, couple of LP style guitars with DiMarzio/SD humbuckers, P90 - always the same sh*t - no matter how loud/quiet I was played, sound was HORRIBLE.
I thought problem was with pickups, but on other amps, like JOYO Zombie, even Bugera V22 Infinum sound was good!
Same with pedals and multi effects.

In a meantime I decide ID60 TVP have really bad preamp so I try with some preamp pedals on FX Loop - Moore, Palmer etc...
Was a little bit better, but some strange pulsating noise was constantly present.

After that I try using some multi-effect pedals as preamp - Zoom G1x Four, Mooer GE200, NUX Cerberus - complete disaster.

Clean tone without any pedals and 6L6 emulation was just OK, even crunch after lot of tweaking was acceptable..and that's it...

No volume, muddy, EQ is dissaster, in one word - CRAP.
INSIDER Software is unstable, like to crash.

Because I have warranty I was on a service to check amp - all correct.

Then I was playing live and it was a horrible, horrible experience, in the middle of the gig I switch to other amp (Peavy Bandit 112).

After that I sell this peace of sh*t for nothing and I NEVER EVER use Blackstar amps...

Now I have Marshall DSL40CR and what can I say - no tweaking, no problem at all, nice, tight mighty sound no matter what guitar/pedals/multi effect I use.
Even Harley Benton SC550 with stock pickups (Roswell) sound excellent.

Final thoughts - ID60TVP is just overhyped piece of sh*t, avoid if possible, for that money (399€ amp and FS10 66€) you can buy used Marshall DSL40CR or any of modern, low-wattage tube amps with 1X12"/2x12" and enjoy in good sounding amp/guitar.