Swap old HDD for solid state memory on older Recorders)

Started by admin, September 14, 2017, 12:26:24 PM

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admin



http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1007641&fpart=10


https://jimatwood.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/roland-vs-840-sd-card-zip-drive-replacement/




http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1137892




https://www.iflash.xyz/store/

http://www.addonics.com/products/diagrams/ad44mide2cf_diagram.gif

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1030795

http://thestudiofiles.tv/repair-guide-replacing-a-boss-br-1180-hard-drive/

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpetamun.blog.so-net.ne.jp%2F2016-09-28&edit-text=


https://superuser.com/questions/193097/are-there-any-hardware-based-cd-dvd-drive-emulation-projects

http://lowendmac.com/2015/the-lowdown-on-using-compactflash-to-replace-an-ide-hard-drive/

http://www.synack.net/~bbraun/idecf.html

http://www.retrocollect.com/Reviews/hardware-review-gdemu-sega-dreamcast-sd-card-iso-loading-disc-drive-replacement.html


BR-1600CD
BR-1600CD: MAXIMUM RECORDING TIME
The BR-1600CD's hard drive is split into 8 GB partitions. Each partition can recording a maximum of approximately 24 hours when recording one track. If recording more than one track, divide 24 hours by the amount of tracks being recorded. For example: If recording 16 tracks, then the partition can record approximately 1.5 hours.

Notes:

The above-listed recording times are approximate. Times may be
slightly shorter depending on the number of songs and size of
imported loop phrase that were created.
There is not a way to automatically record to a different partition. In order to record to another partition, the partition will need to be selected/loaded. This can be found on page 269 of the manual:
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BR-1600CD_OM.pdf


admin

#1
 Yamaha AW-4416 - Swap HDD for CF Card
http://happyharry.net/yamaha/aw4416/help/4416.compact.flash.pdf

http://lowendmac.com/2015/the-lowdown-on-using-compactflash-to-replace-an-ide-hard-drive/
The Lowdown on Using CompactFlash to Replace an IDE Hard Drive

Dan Knight - 2015.02.01

Over the years, we've covered using a CompactFlash card with an IDE adapter to replace a laptop's hard drive and make it quieter. As it turns out, there's a lot we didn't know about this subject until recently.

CompactFlash (CF) memory cards use a subset of the IDE command set, so making a bootable IDE-44 adapter is pretty trivial – it just links connections on the CF card to the appropriate connector on your IDE plug with no electronics necessary.

You should be sure you're using a UDMA CF card, as non-UDMA cards are not generally bootable when used with an IDE adapter.

That said, both types of CF cards seem to be bootable when place in a PC Card or CardBus adapter. The native CF bus is identical to the 16-bit PC Card interface, just like the IDE/CF adapters mentioned above. PC Cards use an 8 MHz 16-bit data path (16 MBps), while CardBus has 16 times the bandwidth with a 33 MHz 32-bit data path (133 MBps). If your PowerBook supports CardBus, it is the way to go.

With capacities now reaching 512 GB, CompactFlash is a tempting alternative to a traditional hard drive or SSD, and they have a much higher maximum capacity than the currently popular SD-type cards, not to mention being easier to interface with an IDE bus.

I have heard that while CompactFlash drives may have phenomenally high speed ratings, the minute you put it on an IDE adapter, your maximum transfer rate is the same as Ultra ATA/33.  I have also seen IDE-CF adapters that claim to support 150 MBps transfer rates, which is higher than Ultra ATA/133 supports, and that's the fastest parallel ATA protocol, so that obviously isn't true.

In brief, if you have a really fast CF card, your Mac's IDE or Ultra ATA data bus will be the limiting factor. If you have a really slow CF card, it will be the bottleneck. Your best bet is to find a card rated as follows:

IDE (original specification): 3.3 MBps, use at least 22x so CF won't be the bottleneck
ATA-1: 8.3 MBps, use at least 55x
ATA-2/EIDE/Fast ATA/Fast IDE/Ultra ATA: 16.7 MBps, use at least 110x
ATA-3/EIDE: 16.7 MBps, use at least 110x
Ultra ATA/33: 33.3 MBps, use at least 220x
Ultra ATA/66: 66.7 MBps, use at least 440x
Ultra ATA/100: 100 MBps, use at least 660x
Ultra ATA/133: 133 MBps, use at least 880x
Ratings are just a starting point, and just because a card says its 400x doesn't mean it really is, so do your research, find reviews, and make sure the card you buy is the same as the one in the review. Sometimes the internal components will change without the name changing to reflect the difference.

Also, because write speeds are generally lower than read speeds, you might want to boost those "x" numbers by 50% for best results. This is a general guideline, though, so there are many exceptions.

Those "x" Speeds in the Real World

CF cards are speed rated relative to the original CD specification, which is 150 KBps. Thus a 200x CF card should provide 30 MBps performance, 233x should equal 35 MBps speed, and a 266x card should hit 40 MBps. Theoretically a 233x card would top Ultra ATA/33 speed.

Transcend 1000x CompactFlashBut that's not how things work in the real world. Tom's Hardware has done extensive performance testing of CompactFlash memory cards with a SanDisk USB 3.0 card reader, one of the top rated CF card readers in its 2014 tests. Testing was done with 1000 MB of data and repeated five times, then averaged. In all, 15 cards from six manufacturers were tested, 9 of them UDMA-7 cards, which allows a maximum throughput of 167 MB/s and equivalent to Ultra ATA/167.

USB 3.0 is not a bottleneck here, as Tom's Hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/usb-3.0-thumb-drives-2013/benchmarks,144.html

benchmarks of USB 3.0 flash drives show sequential read speeds as high as 434.6 MB/s and write speeds of 286.2 – far higher than any CF card. (For the record, USB 2.0 card readers topped out at 62.9 MB/s sequential reads and 40.6 MB/s writes when tested by Tom's in 2011 – still higher than the 33 MB/s ceiling for a CF/IDE adapter.)

In its sequential read tests,
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/compactflash-charts/-1-Sequential-Read-MB-s,3488.html

Tom's Hardware reports that all the 800x, 100x, and 1066x cards come in between 151 and 157 MB/s, as does the Transcend CompactFlash 400x, a real surprise considering its official 400x rating. The two 300x cards tested score 45.5 and 46.6 MB/s, and most 600x cards score 86.8-99.6 MB/s, with the Kingston Ultimate 600x exceeding expectations at 126.7 MB/s. The UDMA-7 cards, rated at up to 167 MB/s, consistently outperform UDMA-6 cards, which match ATA/133 and have a peak throughput of 133 MB/s.

Writing to flash memory isn't as simple as writing to a hard drive.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/compactflash-charts/-2-Sequential-Write-MB-s,3489.html
The top sequential write speed is 129.2 MB/s, and the worst performer is a 300x Silicon Power card that achieves just 18.9 MB – only 42% as fast as the 300x SanDisk Ducati. Then there are a 400x and 800x card with almost the same write speed. You just can't predict based on rated speed or UDMA standard which will write faster.

In an ideal world, charting read (vertical) and write (horizontal) performance in a scattergram would create a linear patter, but as this chart shows, some cards are tops in both read and write speeds, while others are not.

CompactFlash performance
Sequential read and write performance of CF cards.
On the plus side, all the 1000x and 1066x cards had a measured speed of 122.0 to 129.2 MB/s, so you can count on those for good write speed. In the end, you really need to wade benchmark results to find out which CF cards have the best balance of read speed, write speed, capacity, and price.

Finally, all bets are off when it comes to random reads and, even more so, writes, which range from a high of 39.8 MB/s to a low of 0.6 MB/s. That worst result comes from the only card to have a higher sequential write speed than read speed.

Then again, it also depends on how you're connecting to the card. If you're using the old reliable IDE adapter, only one of the tested cards had a sequential write speed below 33 MB/s, but only three had a random write speed higher than that – all of them UDMA-7 cards. That said, some UDMA-7 cards were much slower than that.

To make matters more difficult, all but one of these cards have been discontinued at present, so you'll need to search for more up-to-date test results when looking for the best CF card to use as a hard drive replacement.

Based on reviews I've read, SanDisk and Lexar appear to be two of the best brands.

FireWire, a Mac Alternative

USB 3.0 is wicked fast but not supported on older Macs. USB 2.0 is okay, but FireWire 400 is faster, and FireWire 800 faster yet – sometimes faster than USB 3.0! Most PowerPC Macs since 1999 include FireWire, although few PowerPC machines other than the Power Mac G5 and FW 800 Power Mac G4 have FireWire 800. FireWire also appears on most pre-USB 3.0 Intel-based Macs, the consumer MacBook and MacBook Air being the FireWire-free exceptions.

The following data is from Rob Galbraith.

Fastest CF card reads, USB 3.0: 77.2 MBps (Lexar Pro 400x 16 GB)
Fastest CF card reads, FireWire 800: 79.4 MBps (Lexar Professional 1000x 32 GB)
Fastest CF card reads, FireWire 400: est. 39.7 MBps, half FW 800 speed
Fastest CF card reads, USB 2.0: 36.7 MBps (Delkin CombatFlash 685x 16 GB)
Fastest CF card reads with SATA adapter: 94.0 MBps (Lexar Professional 400x 8 GB)
Galbraith is only using modern gear, so he does not post results using an IDE adapter like the ones covered in this article.

The SanDisk Extreme FireWire Reader (about $50 on eBay) can be a great tool for moving data to and from CF cards for FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 Macs.
http://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskus/en_US/list/parentCategoryID.11449000/categoryID.11452600


Using CompactFlash Inside Your Mac

CF-to-IDE adapter for 2.5-inch driveFor PowerBooks and iBooks with an IDE hard drive, all you need is a standard CF-to-IDE adapter and a UDMA CF card, preferably on over 266x. It should be plug-and-play, although you may need to use a third-party drive formatting utility or a hacked version of Apple's HD SC Setup.
http://lowendmac.com/2007/format-any-hard-drive-for-older-macs-with-patched-apple-tools/


If you're going to run Mac OS X, we recommend a CF-to-IDE adapter that supports two CF cards so you can set one up exclusively for use with virtual memory, as this is the one feature of OS X most likely to wear out flash memory. This way you can simply replace the virtual memory CF card should it go bad.

CF-to-IDE adapter for 3.5-inch driveIf you want to use CF inside a desktop Mac with an IDE bus, you'll either want a CF-to-IDE adapter designed for use with a standard IDE cable (not the smaller 2.5″ notebook drive connection) or a 3.5″-to-2.5″ adapter plus a notebook CF-to-IDE adapter. This adapter will also work in a 5.25″ drive bay.

Further Reading

Using Compact Flash Cards as SSD Alternative, Daniel Böhmer
http://www.daniel-boehmer.de/thinkpad-cf/

All CompactFlash Charts, Tom's Hardware, 2012 or later (undated)
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/compactflash-charts/benchmarks,170.html

Keywords: #compactflash

Short link: http://goo.gl/D2m7tx

admin

#2
http://www.addonics.com/category/flash_media.php

http://www.addonics.com/products/aeudmd4.php




The IDE DigiDrive PRO is Addonics advanced generations of internal Flash memory reader/writer. Designed to mount directly into a standard 3.5" drive bay, the IDE DigiDrive PRO enables any flash memory media, including the latest SDHC standard, to be used as a removable media with full hot swap capability. Supporting all IDE modes, including UDMA6 (133MB/s) data transfer, the IDE DigiDrive PRO can also be can be used as a bootable device containing an operating system. There is no driver to install the IDE DigiDrive PRO and it is compatible with practically any operating system. The IDE DigiDrive PRO is an ideal solution for small industrial PC, Kiosk or any system with IDE interface to utilize any flash media for data storage or as a high performance boot device.

The IDE DigiDrive PRO comes with upgradeable firmware to ensure compatibility with future new Flash standard. There is also choice of a READ only model, an ideal solution for the forensic application.




Elantric



frummox

Sent mine to a guy on Ebay who did this for me, worked fine. Purchased a bluetooth transmitter for it to try and get it to work with my wireless headphones. Unfortunately didn't work at all. If anyone has been able to get something like that to work (and what device you used) I'd be interested in hearing about it.


VGA-7

Quote from: frummox on May 13, 2019, 08:43:37 PM
Sent mine to a guy on Ebay who did this for me, worked fine. Purchased a bluetooth transmitter for it to try and get it to work with my wireless headphones. Unfortunately didn't work at all. If anyone has been able to get something like that to work (and what device you used) I'd be interested in hearing about it.
This worked for me.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bluetooth-4-2-Receiver-Wireless-Audio-Adapter-with-3-5mm-Aux-Stereo-Output/163500747477?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Gibson L6S /gk2a , Bradley mini strat  /gk2a VGA-7 amp ,GR-33 , GP-10,SY1K, RMC breakout box, PK5 midi pedals,CM-64 sound module, Oberheim EDP  ,Boss RC-300,Digitech TRIO and TRIO +, Alesis DM5, GX2 Gear Shifter and GKPX-14



mgalicki

I have a BR1600 Boss (Roland) digital recorder that the hard drive has began to make a noise. I think it's the motor in it? I tried installing an SSD drive with an IDE to SATA adapter. It's acting spuratic? It goes through the initializing process & I tell it to make 3 40 gig partitions, but then after it's complete it says hard drive damaged?
I'm hitting my head!
Any help is greatly appreciated.

gumtown

Old equipment will not recognise high capacity hard drives, if 40 GB was its limit, try using CF card and adapter, as CF cards are IDE compatible.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

DeRigueur

Quote from: mgalicki on April 13, 2021, 05:59:53 PM
I have a BR1600 Boss (Roland) digital recorder that the hard drive has began to make a noise. I think it's the motor in it? I tried installing an SSD drive with an IDE to SATA adapter. It's acting spuratic? It goes through the initializing process & I tell it to make 3 40 gig partitions, but then after it's complete it says hard drive damaged?
I'm hitting my head!
Any help is greatly appreciated.

I performed this operation on an old Jands stage lighting controller.  Turns out that underneath all the faders and buttons was an old x86 motherboard running linux.
The ssd and ide/sata adapter from newegg worked.  I think I formatted and installed the software onto the new drive from a regular pc before installing it in the Jands.
Fender GC-1 -- Boss SY-1000 -- Alto TS112A

mgalicki

Cool thanks for the inf. I tried to access the original hard drive in a windows PC but it doesn't see it? I've also tried Macrium & clonezilla, but they don't see the drive either?
I'm stuck.
Thanks

mgalicki

Good news to all trying to replace a hard drive in a BR1600. You first need to format the new drive, then you can just copy the contents from the old drive to the new one. If your drive is larger than 40 GIG, after formating it go to your PC and in windows explorer right-click & select Manage.
Then pick Disk Management under Storage. Then you right-click the new hard drive & pic "shrink Volume" select 40000 as the desired size. You can just leave the balance Unallocated if you like or right-click the new hard drive & pic "shrink Volume" select 40000 again if there's enough space left?
Install the drive into the BR & you should be good to go.
I hope this helps someone. Happy recording!

admin

Quote from: mgalicki on April 20, 2021, 08:39:59 AM
Good news to all trying to replace a hard drive in a BR1600. You first need to format the new drive, then you can just copy the contents from the old drive to the new one. If your drive is larger than 40 GIG, after formating it go to your PC and in windows explorer right-click & select Manage.
Then pick Disk Management under Storage. Then you right-click the new hard drive & pic "shrink Volume" select 40000 as the desired size. You can just leave the balance Unallocated if you like or right-click the new hard drive & pic "shrink Volume" select 40000 again if there's enough space left?
Install the drive into the BR & you should be good to go.
I hope this helps someone. Happy recording!

Congratulations

did you use BR-1600 to format the new drive?

is it FAT32?

gumtown

FAT16 has a limit of 4Gb so it would have to be FAT32.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

admin

Quote from: gumtown on April 20, 2021, 03:13:27 PM
FAT16 has a limit of 4Gb so it would have to be FAT32.

Or some arcane format-like on the Yamaha AW16

gumtown

I have a Korg D1600 hdd multitrack recorder which also uses some sort of unreadable proprietery format.
It would only accept certain hardware configurations of harddrive and CD writer, I believe something to do with hardware descriptor tables in the firmware to use drives of the day.
A viable option was to replace the hdd with CF card, as CF cards are directly IDE compatible, and only require an IDE drive adapter, which you can find a PC CF card slot and IDE adapter cable on eBay china.
I brought one but never fitted it as the recorder ribbon cable connectors all failed on the main board.
It sits in my parts bin now, other aspects made it obsolete such as cd or scsi were the only way to externally extract recordings.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mgalicki

Hey admin, I just copied the files from the noisy hard drive onto the new one. I don't remember what I formated the new hard drive as. I would need to pull it out to check? But it just worked as soon as I turned it on! 

admin

Quote from: mgalicki on April 20, 2021, 07:13:55 PM
Hey admin, I just copied the files from the noisy hard drive onto the new one. I don't remember what I formated the new hard drive as. I would need to pull it out to check? But it just worked as soon as I turned it on!

Did you format it on the BR-1600?

Which IDE to SATA Adapter worked for you ?
Like this one?


https://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-Adapter-Convert-Devices-Compatible/dp/B002SZDOM6/ref=mp_s_a_1_3

-



I assume you used a 128GB SATA SSD drive, in three 40GB partitions


Article on SSD TRIM

https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/solid-state-disks-ssd

gumtown

Otherwise a hardware hard-drive duplicator should do the job, not worrying about the type of format, just a 1:1 duplicate

https://www.amazon.com/hard-drive-duplicator-cloner/s?k=hard+drive+duplicator+cloner
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mgalicki

IDE TO SATA Adapter did not work. I had to use an old school hard drive, which yes I did format it to 3 40 GIG partitions. But I don't think the unit likes the adapter? It's not the SSD it's the adapter because I also had a SATA 80 GIG motorized drive that I tried, no go. It must be the SATA adapter. Someone elsware  said to use an IDE CF adapter that should work but I already bought 2 of the IDE to SATA & don't wanna spend the time or $ not that they are expensive, quite cheap actually.
Thanks for all the help.
Cheers!