Roland Ready / GC-1 Strat - Drop in output from magnetic pickups

Started by CBTL, March 22, 2011, 12:18:56 PM

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CBTL

I followed the instrutions to get the GK "3 way" selector to work and its great but now my strat volume knob does not work when set to guitar?

Any ideas from anyone

Matt

Brent Flash


CBTL

No, its my standard with GK3 fitted but I have fixed it! I just unpluged the cable and pluged it back in and its ok now. It must re-set the GK or something???

Brent Flash

Quote from: CBTL on March 22, 2011, 12:49:40 PM
No, its my standard with GK3 fitted but I have fixed it! I just unpluged the cable and pluged it back in and its ok now. It must re-set the GK or something???
That's good, because on the GK there is not that much that can go wrong if you follow the instructions and I was going to ask if you had the cable plugged in.... but I didn't.  ;)

Naasti

Hi all

I plugged my GC1 into my 55 last night and noticed a marked drop in the output from the mag pickups. If I run the guitar from the quarter inch straight into mixer it sounds, well, like a Strat should. When I use the 13pin into the GR, the sound is weak, thin and tinny. If I switch to the modelled Strat it sounds as it should.

Has anyone come across this themselves? The only thing that may be clouding the issue is that a local guitar tec had a look at the pots for me with a view to replacing them, so I wonder if something's been dislodged when he's had the scratch plate off. I haven't had chance to check out the 13pin cable yet - it could be a failure in that somewhere I suppose but there was no crackling or odd responses which could indicate a break somewhere - but everything else seems fine. I even did a factory reset on the GR to see if I'd done something stupid on there but that didn't change anything.

Any input as always gratefully received.

Ta,
Steve

Cricket


Elantric




Check the 1/4" output jack on the GC-1


it's Not a typical guitar jack, which may confuse the typical guitar repairman.

we have complete Schematics.- Use search on "Schematics".


http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/JacksJackPlates_1/Switchcraft-J12A-1-4-Shorting-Jack



Naasti

Thanks for those guys. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I'll try the switch cleaner and test pin-to-pin on my cable first and see how I get on with them. Luckily a guitar shop near to my workplace has a GC1 and GR55 setup and I was able to confirm to myself that I'm not losing my marbles!

The tec reckons he didn't do anything on the grounds that the pots I wanted - US spec ones - are already on there! That said he did get the hex volume and overall tone knobs mixed up when he put it back together so I hope he hasn't been premature with his soldering iron.

I may whip the scratchplate off and see if there's anything which has come astray - it's due a restring after all ...

I'll keep you posted ...

Ta
Steve

Elantric

Roland GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0




GK2-Kit Wiring (The 1997-2011 Fender Roland Ready Strat employs the GK2-Kit internally.) Similar to GC-1
http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-KIT-G_OM.pdf



Internal GK-3 Output Jack
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9169.msg66128#msg66128

The Fender Roland Ready and GC-1 Strats use the same SwitchCraft Style Jack used on a 1967 Fender Twin Reverb Input Jack.
Switchcraft L12A 1/4" Mono 2-Conductor Jack, Tip Shunt, Long Bushing


http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/JacksJackPlates_1/Switchcraft-J12A-1-4-Shorting-Jack

musicman65

I'm not a regular GR55 user although I own one. On the VG99, there is a Mag Pickup gain setting that, if not set properly, will render a weaker Pin 7 (on 13 pin cable) signal within the chain. The Pin 7 analog signal is buffered through an onboard opamp in the GK circuit in the guitar...and may or may not have the same output as the 1/4" jack in the guitar which bypasses the GK circuitry.

Naasti

Just an update ...

Tried to test the cable but my circuit tester decided to go nipples up. Ho hum. So, scratchplate off and all seems in order, as far as I can tell, according to the schematic kindly posted above by Elantric (thanks, btw, saved me looking it up!). I didn't prod around too much so it's back to the shop with it and we'll see what's happening from there.

@musicman65, the same parameter is there on the GR - I'd stumbled across it whilst mooching around -  and it isn't something I've had to fiddle with before. I did fiddle and found I had to put the gain up as far as it would go go get anything near the volume I had before, and the hiss was unbelievable. Also the "naked" guitar tone wasn't there - still thin and reedy city!

Thanks once again for your input guys.

Stand by caller, as they say ...


gumtown

Quote from:  Naasti on March 21, 2014, 12:52:44 AMThe only thing that may be clouding the issue is that a local guitar tec had a look at the pots for me with a view to replacing them, so I wonder if something's been dislodged when he's had the scratch plate off.

This could be a clue?
Was it oK before then.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Naasti

Yep, all was fine before then. Hence lack of prodding by me when I had the 'plate off, and that's why it's going back to the shop so I can compare like for like. But, having tried the demo rig out in another shop, I already know that there's something wrong with my rig somewhere, just a case of isolating where the problem lies.

Ta
Steve

Naasti

So, back to the shop I went. Plugged their demo GC-1 into my GR and sure enough the mag pickup volume and tone matched almost perfectly with the modelled volume. Cue sinking of heart - it's my guitar. Demo'd and repeated the problem to the owner who got the tech in to listen too. He said OK, we'll look at it. Fine and dandy, no problem there. I also mentioned that two control knobs were misplaced. The tech tried to get them off with his fingers but could't so toddled off to get a screwdriver and a soft cloth. Plugged my guitar back in and hey presto all's back to normal! Stumped! Maybe in putting one of the knobs back originally something got dislodged under the pressure which was then put back when he tried to lift the thing off again, I don't know.

Regardless, and hats off to Tim the shop owner, he did offer me the loan of another GC-1 Strat to get me by if mine would've been off the road. Can't say fairer. Needless to say I'll be keeping an eye (or should that be ear?) on it.

Thanks again for all of the input - it's appreciated that you guys'll take the time like that.

Steve

Elantric

Glad to hear you go it sorted

Here is a peek inside the GC-1 / Roland Ready Strat - note there many paths for failure  and electrical shorts should the Vol / Tone pots become " loose".

Roland Ready Strat patch up/down buttons only work intermittently.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6980.0


Naasti

Aye, I saw all that when I had the plate off on mine. Nothing was hanging in the breeze so I wasn't going to get happy with the soldering iron - my soldering skills ain't up to that!

And the wiring diagram makes it all look so simple  ;)

Naasti

Oh, a bit off topic and without wanting to blow smoke up anyone's back end, I've got to say you're a much friendlier bunch than a lot of them at the Line6 forums. I can say that cos I used to have an exclusively Line6 rig consisting of ...

Variax 700
Pod X3live
Spider mk2 valve (which I've still got cos it's so useable)

Any questions I posted on there seemed to get met with a "don't you know that?" kinda vibe.


Elantric

QuoteOh, a bit off topic and without wanting to blow smoke up anyone's back end, I've got to say you're a much friendlier bunch than a lot of them at the Line6 forums. I can say that cos I used to have an exclusively Line6 rig consisting of ...

Variax 700
Pod X3live
Spider mk2 valve (which I've still got cos it's so useable)

Any questions I posted on there seemed to get met with a "don't you know that?" kinda vibe.

You are welcome - we do occasioanlly get cranky here too ;)

But unlike most forums, we do have several mods here that "trim the fat" to help maintain a higher "signal to noise" ratio of on topic vs off topic rants so to speak. and we refrain from personal attacks. or "my Les Paul eats your Strat" verbal sparing.

We try to stay on topic with solid advice, which has its rewards in the fact at any given time we have 20-50 folks 24/7 hanging out here live. ( and many CEO's at high tech companies who lurk here daily ;) ( in other words, show us your skills and you might get a gig offer or a consulting job )


(check here)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=who

and far more web traffic (and knowledge and patches ) here than the Variax forum, or even the Harmony Central High Tech Guitar forum

Many members and Lurkers have bookmarked this link below, and browse everything daily - so redundant threads do get noticed, and trimmed as time permits.

Read All Recent Posts
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=recent

M2

Hi there,

I have an VG Strat with the internal midi pickup with a mode switch problem. The "just VG" switch setting works fine. But the mode where one us just using the regular pickups - I have an intermittent problem where the regular pickup position shorts out - I get no regular guitar sound. By banging on the guitar I get the regular pickups back on, but movement etc. shorts it back out again. I just left it with my guitar tech and sent him the VG strat wiring diagram and I assume the problem is in the section called "Mode Switch" wiring. I imagine I either have a lose wire or something is shorting. I of course have this same problem when in the middle "mix" position.

I don't have this problem with my other midi guitars so I assume it's somewhere in all the wires.

My tech has never worked on this problem before. Any ideas what could be causing this problem, or which wires?

This is the pdf I sent him:

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/011-7500C_SISD.pdf

Thanks very much for your help. I have gigs coming up and I use a lot of patches where I just use the regular guitar or blend the two patches together. I want to avoid having to send this to the factory.

Thanks again,

M2

-------------------

M2 Musik Pub

Elantric

Sounds like a loose intermittent connection

This guitar does have a Switching 1/4" Output jack with switching contacts

I would Print the Service Wiring diagram

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/011-7500C_SISD.pdf]http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/011-7500C_SISD.pdf

Remove the plastic covers on the rear, Then use a wood stick, and gently "tap" various areas on the guitar and its internal wiring looms while play the guitar  - when you stumble upon the area where the signal  cuts out after tapping  - then you can implement a repair.



also there is high potential for poor  / intermittent electrical connection under the pickguard  - ( Take lots of pics during all stages of disassembly and reassembly!)
 

- typically eventually you will locate the problem connection  - often due to a poor "crimp pin" on one of the white molex type connectors or oxidation on an internal electrical connector

After you locate the intermittent electrical connection  - prevent future oxidation of by applying a small amount of Caig Deoxit

Further reading on VG Strat  / G-5 Strat here 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9115.0

and

http://tomsguitarservice.blogspot.com/2010/10/vg-stratocaster.html

M2

Thanks very much Elantric! To make sure - I am not using the strat's 1/4 in jack, the signal is all coming out down the 13-pin cable. Does what you say still apply?

Cheers and thanks again,
M2
-------------------

M2 Musik Pub

Elantric

QuoteI have an VG Strat . . . . .

To make sure - I am not using the strat's 1/4 in jack, the signal is all coming out down the 13-pin cable. Does what you say still apply?

Then we are NOT talking about a VG Strat  Those do NOT have a 13 pin Output Jack!


- but a Roland Ready Strat or GC-1 Strat ( Very different !)

90% of the problems you describe are traced to a bad 1/4" Output Jack  - even if you do not use it !

It has a Switching 1/4" Output jack with switching contacts - same Fender Part Number as a real 1965 Black Face Fender Twin Input Jack.

http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/amp-jacks-panel-mount/Switchcraft-J12A-1-4-Shorting-Jack#.VIFS-THF-04

Switchcraft J12A 1/4'' Shorting Jack



All known Schematics are in this thread

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0


The Fender Roland Ready /  GC-1 Strat's 1/4" output jack is a unique switching jack - anytime you insert a 1/4" plug into the GC-1's 1/4" "Normal PU Output"  jack  - this isolates removes and all the normal passive Strat Electronics signal output from entering into the GK Internal activebuffer and removes the ability to send normal mag PU tone down Pin #7 of the 13 pin Cable

But when you do not use the 1/4" Output Jack, the internal switching contacts easily oxidize and become intermittent 


I bet Your Problem is right here.

Often you can implement a fix by rapidly inserting and removing a 1/4" guitar plug into this jack - this action moves the contacts and knocks off oxidation on the 1/4" jack's switching contacts  which hampers Hi-Z electrical signal flow. 




M2

My mistake sorry, yeah it's the mexican strat with the internal pickup. sorry for the wrong info. You are extremely helpful thanks.

Very appreciative!

M2
-------------------

M2 Musik Pub

Elantric

You are welcome!

Problems with the  1/4" Switching Jack is an ongoing chronic issue with these guitars, that with a little care can be repaired!

Toby Krebs

Thinking about buying a used GC-1 but looking inside of one maybe not lol!
That is a lot of stuff crammed into a very tight space.Looks like the inside of a Variax!
The external GK pups are a little unsightly but pretty easy to deal with.
Think I will keep using them for now.