7 String Doubt

Started by braiton, April 26, 2013, 05:26:43 PM

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braiton

Hello everyone! I've been a Roland GR-55 owner for quite some time now but it's been not until recently that I got my hands in a new 7 string. And new questions arise. I'm aware that I can't utilize the 7th string to trigger midi but I was wondering if all strings would work fine with just the guitar modelling sounds since that's what I'm most interested in. Also would I need a new GK-3 pickup with a Roland GK cable or is there a way to utilize these without the need of one?

Thanks and sorry for my English.
Cheers!

Elantric

#1
There are several hurdles for 7 string users

Lack of any production 7 string  /  7 discreet audio output pickups is the big problem

I have heard of folks (Chapman Stick and Warr Megatar users ) employing custom 7 channel pickups and then doubling the bottom two strings to feed a common "low E" (pin # 6) on the Gk13 pin cable.
http://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=24092

This allows COSM Guitar Modelling, but problems occur for Alt Tunings, and of course Guitar to PCM or Guitar MIDI will have problems too.
Also 7 string Roland compatible GK 13 systems (either Piezo or Magnetic) are pure custom designs  = nothing off the shelf = expensive $$


musicman65

2 GK pups and GR55's? You could overlap them and have extra layers of sound on the 5 middle strings....just think of the possibilities....and size of your pedalboard. Hide one and let one control patch change of the other via MIDI.  :) :)

With the FTP's growing popularity, there should be a glut of GR55s on EBay!

bd

braiton

Thanks for the replies.
I suppose it'd be possible to use the normal pickup and then apply effects/change amp types/etc with a GK-3 pickup then.

braiton

Sorry for bumping this but I've seem to have run into a problem. I select only the option to use the Normal Pickup and then change the structure so that I can use different effects such as overdrives and amps and while this work there seems to be this buzzing/humming in the background. While I fiddled around apparently, bypassing the amp and mods (mfx causes this too) made the humming go away and the master eq and effects worked fine. I have no idea what could be causing this? Anyone have any idea?

Also, I've tried different connections and using the normal pickup with both a 7-string and a 6-string but the problem appears to be the same.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.

gumtown

you need to enable the N.S. effect (noise suppressor) which is just after the amp,
and also bump up it's threshold level more than half way.
The preamps seem somewhat noisey (just like a real vintage amp) if the level goes past 60.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

braiton

Thanks for the reply. I've set the threshold to 100 and release to 0 and although the noise is mostly gone I can still minimally hear it, most noticeable when lightly pressing a string and releasing it lightly and it gets through in recordings and is kind of bothersome.

Any way to completely get rid of the noise?
Thanks for the help!

gumtown

If you are using the USB connection, that can induce digital noise and ground loops, try recording your midi with a USB/Midi device adapter as these use opto-isolators to solate the ground connection.
If recording the audio, use a line level device or a D.I. box with the ground lifted.

Other external equipment can also induce noise by close proximity (display monitors are notorious for noise into the pickups)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

braiton

Don't think it's the USB connection since I've recorded many times before using this method completely noise free. I've separated and tried using different equipment but the noise is still there. I think the noise from the preamp is not getting totally suppressed by the NS. Any ideas?

Elantric

#9
Quotebuzzing/humming in the background

Some things to watch

Be sure you are far away from Display Monitors, or other sources of EMF noise.

If you employ Humbucker mag pickups, or EMG active pickups, there will be less apparent hum and noise as these types have lower noise than single coil Pickups 

If you have a guitar with Single Coil PU's, you may have to move  / re-orientate where you are in the studio for lower noise. Often rotating 90 degrees can lower the noise dramatically.  Employ the Noise Suppressors built in in Roland gear, or consider an external noise gate.

Verify your guitar has a proper String Ground,  (use an Ohm Meter and measure zero ohms between the normal guitar 1/4" Output Jack and the Steel Strings)   

and verify your GK-3 has the short 1/4" cable attached between the Normal Guitar output jack and the GK-3 "Guitar Input" jack - as this establishes the proper  / necessary String Ground is connected to the VG-99 / GR-55 (via 13 pin cable) - to minimize noises. 

musicman65

Try powering up all your audio devices from the same outlet.

bd

braiton

Quote from: Elantric on April 29, 2013, 10:29:06 AM
Some things to watch

Be sure you are far away from Display Monitors, or other sources of EMF noise.

If you employ Humbucker mag pickups, or EMG active pickups, there will be less apparent hum and noise as these types have lower noise than single coil Pickups 

If you have a guitar with Single Coil PU's, you may have to move  / re-orientate where you are in the studio for lower noise. Often rotating 90 degrees can lower the noise dramatically.  Employ the Noise Suppressors built in in Roland gear, or consider an external noise gate.

Verify your guitar has a proper String Ground,  (use an Ohm Meter and measure zero ohms between the normal guitar 1/4" Output Jack and the Steel Strings)   

and verify your GK-3 has the short 1/4" cable attached between the Normal Guitar output jack and the GK-3 "Guitar Input" jack - as this establishes the proper  / necessary String Ground is connected to the VG-99 / GR-55 (via 13 pin cable) - to minimize noises.

Thanks for the tips! I've tried them all but to no avail the problem is still there :(
I've moved the Roland GR-55 to a different (pretty empty) room and used headphones, monitors and amps to output the sound but that humming is still there (as I've said before, this is with NS on, and although most of the buzz/hum is gone it can still be heard when letting go of a string/fret or touching the strings lightly).

I've used the short 1/4" cable that came bundled with the gk-3 pickup as well as other 1/4" cables but the problem was still there.
I also used at least 3 different guitars, one with Humbuckers and another one with EMG81/85 actives, but that light buzz/hum is still there.

And now I have no idea what could be causing this.
Cheers.

braiton

Sorry for double posting and bringing this issue back again but I've managed to track the hum to the Mod option. If it's turned on, no matter the effect (Overdrive, wah, compression, etc.) there's always this hum in the background (even with the effect level as low as 15). With NS turned on all the way the problem I described earlier (light hum/buzz when letting go of frets/strings) so apparently that noise is not being completely dealt with.

Any ideas on what to do?
Thanks for the help!

Elantric

#13
Quote(light hum/buzz when letting go of frets/strings)

Noise that occurs only when you let go of the strings is actually very common to all electric guitars,  (Human Body is an electrical conductor)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_the_human_body_a_good_conductor_of_electricity
http://electromeds.com/magnopro/emf-good-vs-bad/
Touch the strings  = Your body becomes referenced to Ground/Earth and the water in your system acts as a large EMI Shield = No noise.

Also this thread mentions other GR-55 Noise anomalies and possible solutions.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8305.msg59238#msg59238

braiton

#14
Quote from: Elantric on April 30, 2013, 04:05:53 PM
Noise that occurs only when you let go of the strings is actually very common to all electric guitars,  (Human Body is an electrical conductor)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_the_human_body_a_good_conductor_of_electricity
http://electromeds.com/magnopro/emf-good-vs-bad/
Touch the strings  = Your body becomes referenced to Ground/Earth and the water in your system acts as a large EMI Shield = No noise.

Also this thread mentions other GR-55 Noise anomalies and possible solutions.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8305.msg59238#msg59238

I don't think it's my body since the noise can be heard even when I'm playing in the background, just that it's most noticeable when ceasing play since it's not getting buried by sound. And thanks for the links, I'll check them out!
Cheers.