New Strategies for Improved Live Sound - In Ear Monitors

Started by Elantric, January 23, 2008, 07:30:44 PM

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whippinpost91850

Musicman curious what monitors and fh you are using. And what style of music your band is playing live

musicman65

Our IEM's are are standard ear buds of various makes and models. I personally like the SkullCandy Titans. They are built solid, can handle the raw dynamics of live music without distorting, and are fairly flat.I've tried the purpose built IEMs and don't see the difference.

My mains are powered Mackie SA1531z tops on Yorkville LS800P subs. Thats about 6000 watts in true stereo. We  own a second set for outdoor gigs.

The "big trick" to killer sound is using a real-time analyzer to tune the eq for each venue. Its our secret weapon. The other secret is to use modeling pedals connected PA direct in stereo and keeping stage volume low. Using IEMs and NO wedges or sidefills makes this possible.

We've been told we have the best quality and clarity of any bands in our area.




cell7

To all the IEM guys - do you use stereo or mono monitoring for your headphone mix? It seems there are quite some wireless mono solutions out there, but i find a mono mix difficult to deal with and it certainly affects my 'enjoyment' level. I have been dedicating a little 8x2 mixer on my mic stand to a wired headphone monitor mix, but i would love to simplify this and remove the wires.

whippinpost91850

Musicman65, thanks for the info. 8)I've just about got our band convinced to go this route. My old band just wouldn't do it and I think suffered for It. I use a Kemper and a GR55 and the other guitar player uses some Digitech thing, so no reason this shouldn't work for us. ;D thanks again

rolandvg99

#54
I have tested numerous wireless stereo IEM's, but none touches the sound of a cabled solution. Since Going back to using my ol' VG-99, I've taped a 4.2 mm Ø IEM/balanced cable to my 30 feet GKC. This leaves me with one cable and perfect sound. My setup has been altered somewhat after the release of Motu's latest Cuemix FX. It is as follows:

- Motu 828MK3 with 2 Behringer ADA 8000 preamps.
- 2 Behringer ECM8000 measurement mics for ambient placed behind and above the drums. Limited and compressed using the 828
- Presonus 22VSL which I use as a 2 channel gate.
- Behringer 4600 headphone amp
- Macbook Pro (from 2007) running CueMix FX and controlling the 22VSL.
- Each musician gets their listening through a cable using either an iPad, iPod or iPhone to control their mix.

My buds are Etymotic ER4-s, Shure E2c and Starkey ERM-3. Ety's are my preferred choice by far due to their excellent noise suppression.
I also have an ART S-8 splitter for venues with an in-house FOH/tech.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Elantric

#55
Quote- Motu 828MK3 with 2 Behringer ADA 8000 preamps.
- 2 Behringer ECM8000 measurement mics for ambient placed behind and above the drums. Limited and compressed using the 828
- Presonus 22VSL which I use as a 2 channel gate.
- Behringer 4600 headphone amp
- Macbook Pro (from 2007) running CueMix FX and controlling the 22VSL.
- Each musician gets their listening through a cable using either an iPad, iPod or iPhone to control their mix.

Wow - sounds like my gear.

I'm also attempting to find time to try Motu's latest Cuemix FX with iPad.

musicman65

Quote from: cell7 on November 08, 2012, 01:08:23 AM
To all the IEM guys - do you use stereo or mono monitoring for your headphone mix?

Stereo fpr me but I listen to the FOH mix. The othedr guys have that typical "more of me" mentality so they get aux mixes which are mono.

FYIi,o I'm not a Behringer famn, but I hear their Avion knock-off is getting rave reviews and is back ordered so that may be our next purchase. I use an Avion system at church and each of it's 16 channels can be panned.

bd

rolandvg99

Quote from: musicman65 on November 09, 2012, 03:32:43 PM
Stereo for me but I listen to the FOH mix...

Are there other ways?  ;)

I'll go for a stereo FOH mix anytime. I play better when I need to concentrate on hearing myself. It's easier to pick out harmonies and to fall back and let the others shine.  8)
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Toby Krebs

Did my 3rd or 4th gig with in ear monitors last night in a 75 seat club. Enjoyed it a lot now that I am a bit more used to not straining to hear myself and getting my ears razored by drums/cymbals and blaring monitors playing backing tracks. Love the detail and ability to really hear the tracking of the GR55s PCM tones. Of course my throat doesn't hurt anymore and singing was almost enjoyable. I highly recommend the little Rolls 351 personal monitor. Great solid unit and pretty darn clean. I find I am turning all the sources down in my in- ear mix more with each gig.Also playing with a much lighter touch. Much less fatigued after the gig and much less fatigued this morning. Should have done this a couple years ago but was still married to the amp thing. Personally I no longer need them for cover gigs.

HCarlH

What ear buds/headphones are you using?

Do you get hearing fatique/claustrophobia with your ears plugged/covered all night?

I'd really like to go this route as I have a major problem hearing on the small (non-existent) stages we play on. I'm literally next to the bass bin and HF horn....LOUD
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

rolandvg99

Having used IEMs for about 10 years I hate playing without them when drums or "this goes to eleven" type of guitarists are present. When used right IEMs will save ones hearing and let one focus 100% on ones performance. That being said IEMs will wreck ones hearing if one pumps the levels instead of balancing out the monitoring. The more dampening offered by the plugs the lower the volume needed. My Etymotic ER-4s monitors offer 35-40 db attenuation which again let my lower the volume substantially to preserve my hearing. To avoid "claustrophobia" I use a pair of Behringer ECM8000 mics fed to my Motu 828 MKIII. I compress/limit these hard to raise the levels between the songs and to avoid bursting my ears when the drummer starts crushing his drums. Lately I've also used my old PM351 combined with my Zoom H6 to achieve somewhat the same result although the Motu is way above in features and flexibility.


Apart from the Etymotics I own there are many good options out there depending on budget. These are the best options of what I have tested. All are universal fit models.


Low budget: Shure SE215
Mid budget: Etymotic HF5, Etymotic HF7, Shure SE315, Shure SE425
High end: Shure SE535, Etymotic ER-4s


A great source with loads of reviews can be found here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-308-iems-compared-rbh-ep1-added-01-01-14-p-836
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

JolietJake

Having played with powered monitors and in ear monitors there is no comparison. Its in-ear monitoring all the way for me.

If anyone would like to try it without too much expense, for years my band simply took the headphone output from the mixer and fed it to a cheap headphone amplifier/splitter like this:

http://www.studiospares.com/headphone-amps+splitters/behringer-microamp-ha400/invt/380280?source=215_74&gclid=CKKKmtOF57sCFZGWtAodAXYAfQ

From there simply get a 5 meter headphone extension cable and plug in your own in-ear type ear phones. I find that the sports type are less likely to fall out. This is inexpensive and gives everyone basic control (volume) over what they hear. No perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee even this will be better than trying to hear yourself and fighting feedback from powered monitors.

Elantric

#62
We have an archived doc in our download area worth knowing about.

Using Jamhub for In Ear Monitor Application
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=22

Jamhub was developed by former Bose engineers to assist musicians achieve individual headset mixes which have each band members instrument in the foreground.
http://jamhub.com
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10268.msg73960#msg73960

Toby Krebs

Quote from:  hcarlh on January 04, 2014, 12:15:46 PM
What ear buds/headphones are you using?

Do you get hearing fatique/claustrophobia with your ears plugged/covered all night?

I'd really like to go this route as I have a major problem hearing on the small (non-existent) stages we play on. I'm literally next to the bass bin and HF horn....LOUD

I am using an older set of Shure E2s(warm fat sound) and a brand new pair of Shure 315s(199 dollars or so).They sound good but must be burned in like speakers for a good 40 to 60 hours before they warm up like my old E2s'. I have had no trouble with any claustrophobia or disconnected feeling. In fact I like being able to hear only what I want to hear and find myself turning all three inputs down to a very moderate volume on my little Rolls personal monitor. No more morning after noise hangover. No more exhausting ear fatigue from being right next to a loud drummer and midrange happy bass player. I have felt fresher and not tired after all the the gigs I have done with them. My hearing is returning to normal. I was wearing earplugs a lot anyway so having the in ears with a good seal in my ear feels normal for me. My wife says I am not yelling anymore when I am just speaking normally. I did not realize how much loud music takes it out of you physically but it does. I sing a lot too and don't have to scream anymore. If their is a downside to IEMs' I have yet to find it. And the GR55 sounding fabulous in my ears is just gravy for me! LOVIN IT!!!

kenact

+1 on the Rolls.  As soon as I started using one, several years ago, I noticed I wasn't strain my voice anymore. They're great.
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

Elantric

I see many models of Rolls Personal monitors - which model is everyone using ?
http://www.rolls.com/pdf/catalog.pdf

kenact

Quote from:  Elantric on January 05, 2014, 06:59:28 PM
I see many models of Rolls Personal monitors - which model is everyone using ?
http://www.rolls.com/pdf/catalog.pdf
I've used both the PM50 & the PM315 and both performed very well. The 315 is probably the best way to go.
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

Toby Krebs

Agreed as it has three inputs. One for your mic that passes through to the house mixer. Another for your instrument that passes through as well and yet another input for a feed from the monitor mix. All three inputs have individual level controls that feed your in-ear monitors. And it's made in the USA for a reasonable cost! How the hell  do they do that?Rolls/Tech 21 and Eminence speakers all still made here. Miracles shall never cease!

Elantric

#68
Thanks!

Rolls Personal Monitor Station - Rolls PM351
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001032IDS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I'm heading to a studio later this week to record with my band, and Jefferey Perkins (Paul Thorn Band) is playing drums   - and its always been a battle to get a headphone mix i can use at this studio.
http://www.paulthorn.com/bio/band.html

HCarlH

Quote from: Toby Krebs on January 05, 2014, 02:48:38 PM
I am using an older set of Shure E2s(warm fat sound) and a brand new pair of Shure 315s(199 dollars or so).They sound good but must be burned in like speakers for a good 40 to 60 hours before they warm up like my old E2s'. I have had no trouble with any claustrophobia or disconnected feeling. In fact I like being able to hear only what I want to hear and find myself turning all three inputs down to a very moderate volume on my little Rolls personal monitor. No more morning after noise hangover. No more exhausting ear fatigue from being right next to a loud drummer and midrange happy bass player. I have felt fresher and not tired after all the the gigs I have done with them. My hearing is returning to normal. I was wearing earplugs a lot anyway so having the in ears with a good seal in my ear feels normal for me. My wife says I am not yelling anymore when I am just speaking normally. I did not realize how much loud music takes it out of you physically but it does. I sing a lot too and don't have to scream anymore. If their is a downside to IEMs' I have yet to find it. And the GR55 sounding fabulous in my ears is just gravy for me! LOVIN IT!!!


Thanks to Toby and Asle (and others!) for the tips!
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

admin

#70
I found a site that sells only popular in ear monitor systems here
http://ineargear.com/home.html

http://ineargear.com/aboutus.html
In Ear Gear is a subsidiary of Freq City Sound & Lighting LTD Cincinnati Oh FREQ CITY WEB SITE. Our primary business is live sound and staging FREQ CITY CLIENTS.

My name is Mike Volkerding. I am the President (and truck loader). I started just like everyone in this business giggin' on the week ends and the rig just kept growing. I still recall my powered PV head and 2 SP3 speakers. The rock n roll compulsion has grown me into a 44,000 sq ft warehouse loaded with enough gear to fill several semis.

FOH Magazine article on Freq City Sound

Along the way, I stumbled in to in ear monitors. In my 60 years of life, I had never seen something change the dynamic of playing music as much as going in ear. The in ear monitors thing became a side line passion of mine and hence this web site. I still rock out on the week ends and never do it without ears. Actually, the thought of a wedge terrifies me!

Why do I want to be a client of a concert tour type sound company instead of an online music store? Read on.

Music stores make their bucks on retail guitar sales and trumpet/violin rentals to schools. Most of the guys at the shops are good dudes and gig on the weekends. They have a little knowledge of everything in the store. Their primary push to you is whatever they're using on their weekend gigs or what pays a $5 manufacture's spiff for a sale. I've been there; I managed a music store here in Cincinnati 30 years ago.

At a sound company we specialize in live sound. We're specialists in the areas of speaker enclosures, power amps, mixing consoles, and all styles of stage and in ear monitors. We recently did the sound, lights and stage for Styx and Huey Lewis for a crowd of 75,000 people. It's a different caliber of professionals around the stage wearing the "All Access" pass (there are no music store dudes).

An analogy – you want to improve the torque on your car's engine. Your options for direction on this move are the guy at the NAPA auto parts store or a NASCAR race driver's pit chief who also sells parts. Dig?

Ever notice that music stores are closed when you're setting up the show and there's a technical question? I understand that rock n roll's not an 8-5:00. My cell phone is on if I'm awake (513.375.3302). I value my customers and I'm here as your consultant (plus I love this stuff).


Regarding the lines carried on this site. There are mega numbers of in ear monitor manufactures. I try to stay on top of them to make sure there's nothing new I should make you aware of and/or add to the site.

I just got back from the NAMM show and checked out all the new introductions as well as the old standards. Here's the deal. What's carried on InEarGear.com is all of the industry boiled down to a few products. I've done a lot of comparing, research, and trying of products for you.

At the NAMM show 2012 I checked out all the new products. One outfit had 12 drivers! I listened to all and they sounded fine. Here's the thing, after two armature drivers, I've never heard the difference that would justify the added cost. I'm really not sure I can hear a difference at all. I've paid through the nose for mega driver stuff and I just wanted to believe!

I went from a dual driver Westone mold to a three way and spent a fortune. I heard no difference. I opened a 3 way Shure SE535CL and compared it to the Shure SE425 2 way. I heard no difference. Keep in mind, I'm talking stage rock n roll here.

You head-fi guys like talking top shelf, burn in time etc and that's fine. You read reviews on the mega drivers how bad ass they are. It's like buying a new expensive guitar, you've spent a fortune on it and you believe its the best - worth all the money you've invested. You tell every one you know and continue convincing yourself that it was worth all you spent. Same with the mega driver IEMs in the chat rooms. I've been there.

Do you believe with a 12 driver IEM that if a couple drivers went out, you'd hear a difference - nope. When you're standing in front of a PA system and it's kicking your ass. Can you tell if it's one, two, three, four way? Nope, you just know it sounds really good. The rest is selling hype. All the national and regional touring acts we do sound for ask for bi-amped wedges. For the last ten years, I've put full range wedges in front of them. They sound real good. Never has an act said, "is that a 2 way system"?

In ear gear has the basics, the standards, the meat and potatoes of in ear monitors. I try out everything on the market and if it beats something on this site, I'll switch out or add.

I listened to mold outfit that had up to 12 drivers. It was the most inexpensive molds I'd ever seen. Do it yourself impression kit and really a low cost alternative. I liked the guys so I won't mention the company name. At the end of the day - an Aurisonics ASG1 was a better sounding product (single dynamic driver).

So bottom line; There's not a million choices on this site like the big box stores that sell ever product in the world. What is on this site is what you need. I spend a lot of time researching, studying, reading, talking with manufactures etc. This frees you up to do your job and hit the stage.


MIKE@FREQCITYSOUND.COM / OFFICE 513.751.0970 / CELL 513.375.3302


http://ineargear.com/aboutus.html

kenact

Quote from:  admsustainiac on January 05, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
At the end of the day - an Aurisonics ASG1 was a better sounding product (single dynamic driver).

Those ear buds cost more than my whole in ear system.  :o
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

Dewittian

Anybody ever try the ear clip type headphones?  I like the Koss KSC75 clip around the ears.  My problem with in ear phones is that I sweat too much.  I mean A LOT.   The over the ear clip is comfortable and it's semi open air.  For those who sweat profusely they deliver the most sound and are the most comfortable.  I'm open to ideas about how to get more comfortable playing live.

http://www.koss.com/en/products/headphones/ear-clip-headphones/KSC75__KSC75_Ear_Clip_Headphones
Gear:
Laptop windows 10
GR55
Tascam US1800
Ibanez with GK3 pickup and M-Audio Keystation

rolandvg99

I found that my deep insert Etymotics tackles sweaty situations way better than my Shure E2c, SE315 and my custom molds which btw proved to be a total waste of cash, as I can't get a tight seal even after 3 remakes. Something about small ears, narrow and deep ear canals.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Elantric

#74
QuoteAnybody ever try the ear clip type headphones?  I like the Koss KSC75 clip around the ears.  My problem with in ear phones is that I sweat too much.  I mean A LOT.   The over the ear clip is comfortable and it's semi open air.  For those who sweat profusely they deliver the most sound and are the most comfortable.  I'm open to ideas about how to get more comfortable playing live.

Being open air headphone - there is high potential for Feedback, if you need lots of your own vocals in your ears at the gig.

So if you go that route with the Koss KSC75's, be sure to use a Vocal Mic with a tight Hypercardioid Pattern  - like a Shure SM-58 / SM-57   

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/live-sound-microphone-buying-guide/