GR-1 - How to change GR-1 MIDI Receive mode (Mono/Poly)?

Started by Rickyz, July 25, 2017, 03:32:19 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rickyz

Hi all, I recently picked up a GR-1 and have read the manual cover-to-cover but can't find a way to set its MIDI receive mode to polyphonic. The default mode seems to be Mono, like other GR units, meaning when I connect a MIDI keyboard to play the GR-1, I can't play chords. Does anyone know how to change this mode?

Other GR units have a procedure of holding down a certain key while powering on. For example, with the GR-20 you hold down the (EXIT) button while powering up. With the GR-30 you hold down (+) while powering up. I tried these on the GR-1 and got "Song Init OK?" when holding down (EXIT), and I got nothing when I held down (INC) or (NEXT) on powering up (there's no + button). I then went through all the other 22 buttons while powering up. No dice although I found these:

Powerup+(EXIT) = "Song Init OK?"
Powerup+(ENTER) = "PG 1-128 OK?"
Powerup+(SYSTEM) = "Sys Init OK?"
Powerup+(PATCH) = "Pat Init OK?"
Powerup+(RECORDER/PART) = "Demosong OK?"
Powerup+(WRITE/COPY) = "All Init OK?"

Maybe that might be useful to someone, but I'm still stuck receiving Mono notes. Any ideas??

P.S. Just to add, I tried pressing (SYSTEM), (PARAMETER NEXT) twice, to access "MIDI", then pressed (ENTER) (NEXT) to get to "Md Mono" and changed the value to "Md Poly", but apparently that only switches the GR-1 transmit mode, not receive.

admin

#1
http://www.honles.com/egx/gr1.htm
http://llamamusic.com/gr1/gr-1_info.html
http://llamamusic.com/gr1/GR-1_MIDI_Sequencing.pdf

QuoteWhile you are in the tone select screen, the GR-1 changes to OMNI ON. In this mode, no matter what MIDI
channel you send to the GR-1, it will play the currently selected tone



Rickyz

The first 2 links refer to Midi Transmit mode (see the P.S. at the bottom of my post above). The 3rd link talks about Midi Omni, which is what I need, but it only engages while in the Tone Select screen (for the sake of auditioning new tones I suppose). As soon as you exit to normal Play/performance mode, the GR-1 switches back to Midi receive mono.

admin

#3
AKIAK - on the GR-1, Midi Omni Mode only engages while in the Tone Select screen

It was not part of the GR-1  design goal for its use with a keyboard as a standalone MIDI Tone Module with OMNI MODE   

But another GR-1 owner might add more details and know some undocumented secret method to access MIDI OMNI Mode

shawnb

I read this question a little differently... 

Mono/Poly is a separate question from Omni mode.  (Though maybe close enough?)

I'd be tempted to experiment with the standard MIDI messages for Mono/Poly & Omni On/Off.   Look at entries 124-127 in the standard MIDI CC table:
https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/table-3-control-change-messages-data-bytes-2

DecimalBinaryHexControl FunctionValue
124   01111100   7C   [Channel Mode Message] Omni Mode Off (+ all notes off)   0   
125   01111101   7D   [Channel Mode Message] Omni Mode On (+ all notes off)   0   
126   01111110   7E   [Channel Mode Message] Mono Mode On (+ poly off, + all notes off)   
Note: This equals the number of channels, or zero if the number of channels equals the number of voices in the receiver.
127   01111111   7F   [Channel Mode Message] Poly Mode On (+ mono off, +all notes off)   0

I was pretty shocked to learn a while back that the FTP responded to these Mono/Poly MIDI CCs.  Maybe we'll get lucky with the GR-1!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Rickyz

#5
First off, you guys should be honored... Around the same time as I posted here, I submitted a support request to Roland, and they just replied saying they don't know the answer but I should ask VGuitarForums  ;D

admsustainiac, that's the conclusion I'm slowly accepting, although shawnb's idea has given me a spark of hope (more on that below). The document you linked, "GR-1 Midi Sequencing" has given me the most hope so far. Even though Tone Select doesn't let me edit the sounds (chorus, reverb, misc knob twiddling), at least I can use the presets in Poly mode. This discovery sent me back to the GR-1 manual where I suddenly realized what they're talking about on page 6-12...



The last sentence in the box up top is what suddenly makes sense now. "When playing in standard polyphonic mode with a keyboard ... you should use the GR-1's multi-timbral sound module."

This might be old news to you guys but bear with me, I'm learning haha. The GR-1 is split into 2 separate engines. There's the Performance engine which is the one I want because it has all the fun stuff like tone editing, reverb, chorus, misc knob twiddling. Then there's the Multi-timbral engine which gives you just the preset tones.

GR-1 defaults to
Performance Mode = MIDI Ch 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 (one note per channel/string)
Multi-Timbral Mode = MIDI Ch 2, 3, 4, 10

The quickest solution is to transmit from the keyboard to the GR-1 on Ch 2, 3, 4 or 10. Then on the GR-1 press (RECORDER/PART) and navigate the screens to set a preset tone for that channel. The problem... since you're in Multi-Timbral mode, preset tones only :/

The convoluted solution (I think?) if you want to use Performance mode is to somehow transmit on channels 11-16, splitting the note data into 1 per channel/string which is how the GR-1 assumes a guitar performance should be. Side note: this is why they call it "Midi Omni" rather than Polyphonic, because while each channel is technically mono, when 6 mono channels are played simultaneously there's your 6-string "poly". But in order to do this, your keyboard MIDI controller has to be sophisticated enough to do chord splitting like that. Mine certainly isn't! It's a $25 M-Audio Keystation which is as primitive as it gets, everything gets broadcast on 1 channel only.

Which leads us to shawnb's idea... OMG to quote the guy on Star Trek IV after Scotty gives him the formula for transparent aluminum: "It would take years just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix." (McCoy replies) "But you'd be rich beyond the dreams of avarice."  :D

shawnb - that totally makes sense in a wacky theoretical way, I think I'm going to roll up my sleeves and give it a shot. My knowledge of midi sysex and cc stuff is very limited, but I have a vague idea of how it's supposed to work. I also have MidiOx installed on my computer which is the way to transmit this stuff, I assume?

This could take a while, but it seems promising. And in the meantime I think I can get by using the Multi-Timbral presets... although the true power of the GR-1 is when you start twisting knobs. If I'm successful with this step, my next challenge will be using midi to record & control performance edits, such as the EV-5 pedal controlling Cutoff like a Wah pedal. Wouldn't that be da bomb?

shawnb

Odds are low, but it's worth a try!

Sometimes they just reuse old chips/microcode, and stuff is supported down there that they just don't document...   

MIDIOX has a "SEND MIDI CONTROLLER MESSAGES" function.   Just connect it up & experiment.  I would first experiment with basic things like PCs to see if it is receiving (top part of that screen sends PCs).  And once you're convinced the GR-1 is receiving, then move up to CCs (bottom part of that screen). 

Let us know how it goes!   Good luck!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

mercury1

I just noticed this question. I used the gr-1 with a keyboard along with the guitar synth .Keyboard must be transmitting to multitimberal module i.e. channels 1-10 and voice reserve for parts must be set for up to 24 notes
Gr-55, Gr-33, Gr-1, Vg-88, Jamman looper, Brian More 88.13  ,/ 8.13 , Fender hm strat( gk-3 ), Hammer( int gk-2) , Behringer V-ampire Lx1200 / fcb1010

mercury1

Upon further review I realized that the voice reserve was the whole deal with the gr-1. It has a 24 note polyphony so  if you reserve 6 notes for the guitar synth you could use the rest for the multi midi channels but each has to be set. I would usually set bass on channel 2 with 1 voice and piano on channel 1 with at least 6 notes and drums on channel 10 with 3 notes that would leave the other channels to share the remaining 8 notes...hope that helps
Gr-55, Gr-33, Gr-1, Vg-88, Jamman looper, Brian More 88.13  ,/ 8.13 , Fender hm strat( gk-3 ), Hammer( int gk-2) , Behringer V-ampire Lx1200 / fcb1010