Brian Moore i2.13 static noise

Started by 47Flyer, November 01, 2016, 06:07:42 AM

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47Flyer

Good Day to all.  I was wondering if someone from our community could help me with a problem that I'm having with my Brian Moore i2.13 guitar.  I have a number of GK guitars but have never experienced the issue that I'm having with this one.  When I plug this guitar into my GP-10, GR-55, or VG-88 using a 13 pin cable I initially have a clean GK signal.  However, when I switch to my magnetic pickups and then switch back to the both or GK switch positions I get a very loud constant hissing static that I can not eliminate until I unplug the 13 pin cable from the guitar and turn the synth device off.  Upon restart with the switch in the GK position I get a clean GK signal which immediately again becomes static when I switch between mag and GK once again.  I'm confused by this as none of my other guitars have this problem.  I have used 3 different 13 pin cables with the same effect for each.  So I have narrowed it down to the guitar being the culprit but don't know how to correct the problem.  The guitar is using an internal RMC Poly Drive one.  Has anyone else experienced this issue with a GK guitar?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

47Flyer

By the way.  I have used Deoxit on all of my cables and the plug on the guitar but this does not correct the noise.

admin

Is your Brain Moore also equipped with a USB audio interface as well ?

Post a pic of your guitar and exact model number

GuitarBuilder

Sounds like the switch is bad.  If you start up with the switch in the Guitar/Mag position, do you get the hiss?

On my Brian Moore this is just a small toggle - should be easy to replace.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

47Flyer

admsustaniac,

Thanks for the quick reply.  I'm currently at work doing non-work things on my office computer so I can't post a picture just now but will get to it tonight.  The guitar does not have a USB, just the 13 pin and trs for mag and pieso.

47Flyer

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on November 01, 2016, 06:24:29 AM
Sounds like the switch is bad.  If you start up with the switch in the Guitar/Mag position, do you get the hiss?

On my Brian Moore this is just a small toggle - should be easy to replace.

When starting with switch in mag position there is no noise, only when I switch to the both or GK position.  The hiss seems to hesitate for a half a second before it starts.  Switching back to mag silences the noise but the hissing starts agin as soon as I switch back to GK.

admin

#6
There is a N.S (Noise suppressor ) in the COSM Modeling block that can help tame noisy hex preamps

Typically Brian Moore uses RMC PolyDrive preamps which typically are very quiet.

Is this hiss a recent development? Might be a new fault with your PolyDrive preamp ( electrolytic capacitor going dry and cease functioning as deigned )

With older electronics ( camcorders) the typical failure source are the 10 year old electrolytic caps

47Flyer

I tried to silence the noise by using the NS on the VG-88 and GP-10 but had to turn the threshold up to over 90 before it would suppress the hiss.  As soon as I played a note the hiss would return at full volume.  You may be right about the old electronics.  I managed to find one 13 pin cable that the guitar was able to be used without noise.  Strange thing is that all of my Godins and my other GK guitars work with my pedals without noise, no matter what 13 pin cable I use.  Only the Brian Moore gives me the problem with 3 out of 4 cables that I used.  Defective socket, maybe?

Elantric

#8
QuoteI managed to find one 13 pin cable that the guitar was able to be used without noise.

Defective socket, maybe?

That indicates the fault is with the 13 pin cable connection

Could be a bad ground contact on the GK 13 pin jack on the Godin

Ground is only on the large round chrome shell on the DIN 13 plug


I advise try a good Gk-13 cable ( Gittler, BPTA, PrimovaSound) 

Roland GK 13 pin Maintenance Tips.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0

47Flyer

admsustaniac,

Here are the pictures that you requested so that you can tell the model of the guitar that I'm referring to.  Sorry about the poor picture quality.  I'm a better guitarist than a photographer.  You can see that this is one of the Korean models.  I also have a custom shop Brian Moore from 1998 which has no issues.  Once again, Elantric may be spot on in his diagnosis of a bad ground connection.  Thanks Elantric.  I'll try one of those better cables and see if I can focus on cleaning up that connection.


Elantric

#10
I suspect the GK-13 jack has a ground fault.
With GK 13 pin gear, This can manifest as a hiss sound


carlb

As one cable is silent while other (good ones) exhibit the noise, I too suspect the physical ground connection. The power connection, alternately.

Retensioning the contacts could do the trick, if not the guitar jack needs to be replaced. Retension as best you can with whatever you can make do the work: needle nose pliers, jeweler's screwdrivers, etc.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

47Flyer

Thanks my friends.  I thought that your suggestions made a lot of sense and you are probably right.  I have discovered more info through experimentation.  It appears that it may be directly related to the length of the cable.  Is that even possible?  I used both 1m cables that came with my switcher, no noise.  Roland 3m cable, no noise.  Cheap aftermarket 3m cable, no noise.  Old 5m Roland cable, immediate rushing noise.  Aftermarket 5m cable, noise.  Brand new, still in the package, Roland 5m cable, immediate noise.  It could be a coincidence but there seems to be a pattern, anything over 3m creates noise.  I have 7 other GK guitars that work with all of those same cables without issue.  Like you said, either bad ground or power supply pins, I'm just not educated enough to understand if the cable length could really make a difference.

carlb

The cable length by itself would only add capacitance-per-foot, which can "dull" the input a bit. That's all.

The problem you're having is that some cables are making needed connections while others can't. All should be able to, so the jack is marginal.

It could be the jack on the break-out box that feeds the VG-88 and GP-10, too ...
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

admin

QuoteI used both 1m cables that came with my switcher, no noise.

I assume that is a Roland US-20?

https://www.roland.com/global/products/us-20/

The US-20 and its GK-13 female jacks are also part of your signal chain and could be a source of your noise These jacks should be cleaned & inspected and maintained just like any other GK-13 connection

47Flyer

Thanks guys.  Yes I'm using the US-20 but while testing this I was going direct to the GP-10 or VG-88.  When I used the short cables that came with the US-20 between the guitar and the VG-88 I had no problems.  Not very practical at a gig because I would have to lay down on the stage next to my pedals.  I think that I'll look for a place that can replace the socket on the guitar or send it back to Brian Moore guitars for repair.  They modded one of my other guitars nicely.  Not a very expensive guitar though and may not be worth the expense of repair and shipping.  Thanks again for your assistance.  You guys are the best.

Elantric

#16
QuoteWhen I used the short cables that came with the US-20 between the guitar and the VG-88 I had no problems.

That verifies your noise issue is from a fault with your other GK-13 cables


These tips below prevent GK 13 cable noise issues manifesting at an important gig

* Read the GK-13 Cable FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19481.0

* Order quality GK-13 cables

   Gittler GK-13 Superior Cable (WITH a right angle connector)
    https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11243.0

    or

   BTPA GK-13 cable
   http://btpa.com/13-Pin-Midi/

   or

   Primovasound GK-13 cable ( send a PM to member Codesmart) 
   https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13234.0

* Use 13-PIN PLUG & SOCKET DUST COVERS
   https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18487.msg136189#msg136189

   

   

* Extend the life of your new GK-13 cable by winding them properly to avoid internal kinks  that can damage internal wires middle of the cable
   https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17715.msg126215#msg126215
   

* Store GK-13 Cables in a separate hard case to prevent them getting crushed during transit

   

* Carry a small can of Caig DeOxit

   


* Perform the GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0

47Flyer

Thanks Elantric.  I ordered a cable from BTPA today, as it was priced more reasonably.  Was interested in the Gittler but the right angle plug is made in such a way that it would require me to plug it in backwards because the Brian Moore socket is mounted 180 degrees off from the way they are on most other GK guitars. I'm already using the De-oxit spray.  The covers look interesting.  I will let you know how the BTPA cable works out as soon as I get it in.

47Flyer

Here is an update.  The cable that I ordered from BTPA arrived yesterday.  I took it out of the box, connected it to my VG88 and Brian Moore and started playing.  No symptoms were displayed.  Just a beautiful clean signal without the hiss that I was getting.  What concerns me is the brand new Roland cable is apparently of a lesser quality.  Well anyway,  I know where I will be buying my cables from now on.  On another note,  I spoke to  Pat Cummings at Brian Moore guitars.  He said that he is replacing many of the RMC modules with Graphtech systems.  He said that it was a more modern system which is easier to service than the RMC.  As the guitar is already 16 years old, I'm thinking about sending it to him for a complete rebuild.

carlb

Be certain that the piezo bridge elements are shielded for the new Graphtech setups. Note that RMC bridge elements are shielded. I went from the Graphtech setups to RMC setups as I couldn't rest my hand on the bridge without generating buzz. Also the simulation of the older Roland guitar synths would just be buzzy with the Graphtechs.

If you do decide to get the swap-out done, Patrick's iGuitar team does a great job. They did the re-work toward RMC and Duncans for my SH-575 and SH-457 Carvin guitars. Great work.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

carlb

Another possible option. See if Patrick's team could build-in a Roland hex pickup and electronics for you. That would be the most ideal, if they can.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker