PRIMOVA MIDX-20 Dual Roland USB MIDI Converter / Ctrl Interface

Started by CodeSmart, March 05, 2016, 05:20:19 PM

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rolandvg99

I would gladly use the PC assistant to throw out any unnecessary bridge functions to hand out space to advanced CC programming. Custom CC ranges, 20 plus CC conversion slots, multiple CCs per pedal etc. I'd gladly pay extra for this.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

vtgearhead

I understand the customer support concerns.  I recall you mentioning that the MIDX-20 has two onboard CPUs.  Is is possible for them to run different firmware?  Or, perhaps you could have the customer request the firmware appropriate to their use (with the option of changing it on their own using the PC Assistant).

CodeSmart

Quote from: snhirsch on August 11, 2017, 05:00:50 AM
I recall you mentioning that the MIDX-20 has two onboard CPUs.  Is is possible for them to run different firmware?
No, the boot loader is not prepared for that, and the bootloader is not field upgradable.

Quote from: snhirsch on August 11, 2017, 05:00:50 AM
Or, perhaps you could have the customer request the firmware appropriate to their use (with the option of changing it on their own using the PC Assistant).
Yes, that would probably be the way to handle it.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

vtgearhead

Quote from: CodeSmart on August 11, 2017, 05:43:59 AM
No, the boot loader is not prepared for that, and the bootloader is not field upgradable.

Requires a JTAG adapter for bootloader update?

CodeSmart

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

vtgearhead

Quote from: CodeSmart on August 11, 2017, 06:33:20 AM
I use PicKit 3.

I may be one of your only customers who has one of these.  To my wife's horror, I've accumulated mountains of test gear, programmers and widgets over the years.

Bill Ruppert

MIDX-20 by Primova Sound
I just received my MIDIX-20 from Robert Fransson in Sweden and could not be happier!
After recently going through midi hell trying to update the firmware on a new piece gear, I was fearing the same 1.5 hour struggle.

I loaded the MIDX-20 Assistant PC program V and with in 3.5 minutes I had the MIDX-20 completely set up and transmitting various CC numbers AND different pedal curves to my gear!
The processes was ridiculously fast and simple. This is how it is suppose to be!
The box is built beautiful and the documentation is as pro as it gets.  It is priced at what I would call a steal.
Again I could NOT be happier.
The possibilities I have now with a dual exp/sw pedal midi controller is a dream come true.
Thank you Primova Sound!
Bill Ruppert

rolandvg99

The costumer support delivered by this one-man-show is beyond anything I've ever experienced. Quick bug fixes and functionality updates others would never have bothered to address/add. Robert is my new everyday gear hero. :)
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

cags12

Hi CodeSmart - Just wondering if you have considered adding Bluetooth LE MIDI to possibly the next iteration (or expansion) of your MIDIX box or a totally separate one? I mean, one that acts as a host for all the other BLE MIDI gear out there to interface with Roland and any other legacy MIDI equipment (not needing and iDevice or full blown PC/MAC).

It would be great to see a MIDI box that acts as a hub/Brain interfacing several different MIDI transport specifications.

Apologies if this has been asked before, it is hard to catch up with so many posts in this forum :)

Edit: or is it possible to plug in a CME WIDI-bud and add the BLE capabilities?
http://www.cme-pro.com/widi-bud/
"USB 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 compatible. Plug & Play.
No driver needed."

gumtown

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

CodeSmart

Quote from: cags12 on August 14, 2017, 04:57:39 AM
Hi CodeSmart - Just wondering if you have considered adding Bluetooth LE MIDI to possibly the next iteration (or expansion) of your MIDIX box or a totally separate one? I mean, one that acts as a host for all the other BLE MIDI gear out there to interface with Roland and any other legacy MIDI equipment (not needing and iDevice or full blown PC/MAC).

It would be great to see a MIDI box that acts as a hub/Brain interfacing several different MIDI transport specifications.

Apologies if this has been asked before, it is hard to catch up with so many posts in this forum :)

Edit: or is it possible to plug in a CME WIDI-bud and add the BLE capabilities?
http://www.cme-pro.com/widi-bud/
"USB 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 compatible. Plug & Play.
No driver needed."


I think a Bluetooth receiver requires a plastic box (the current enclosure is Aluminium, i.e. Faraday's cage)
It seems Microchip has a small SMT chip (talked to by serial communication/UART) that could be added to a future MIDX hardware to get BLE.

In what I read about the WIDI-Bud it appears that it would work with the MIDX (however occupying a USB port).

(By the way Harald Bluetooth (Harald Blåtand) was a Danish Viking king that just loved to eat blueberries)
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

cags12

Quote from: CodeSmart on August 14, 2017, 02:03:11 PM
I think a Bluetooth receiver requires a plastic box (the current enclosure is Aluminium, i.e. Faraday's cage)
It seems Microchip has a small SMT chip (talked to by serial communication/UART) that could be added to a future MIDX hardware to get BLE.

In what I read about the WIDI-Bud it appears that it would work with the MIDX (however occupying a USB port).

(By the way Harald Bluetooth (Harald Blåtand) was a Danish Viking king that just loved to eat blueberries)

I guess that adding a external mini antenna would also work with the current Aluminum enclosure. Or even applying the same concept of WIDI-Bud attaching to an external port.

Anyway, great to know that the WIDI-Bud theoretically should work. It would be nice to know if anyone that already has the pieces of gear could test.

cags12

Wow, I just catch up with all the posts in this thread plus the ones in the one of the MIDIX-10; and I just simply have to say: Congratulations and great work Robert!!
The journey and work has been very long for sure, great achievement.

I have just learned that you ran away of memory space for adding more functionalities.
I was thinking more about the Bluetooth LE stuffs and was wondering: Instead of using a somewhat costly WIDI-Bud adapter, would it "technically" be possible (as a separate flavor of the firmware stripping other stuffs) to implement (or open source) the BLE MIDI protocol and simply use a generic low cost Bluetooth dongle? Is the architecture of the MIDIX-20 capable of supporting this?

CodeSmart

Quote from: cags12 on August 16, 2017, 03:05:21 PM

I have just learned that you ran away of memory space for adding more functionalities.
I was thinking more about the Bluetooth LE stuffs and was wondering: Instead of using a somewhat costly WIDI-Bud adapter, would it "technically" be possible (as a separate flavor of the firmware stripping other stuffs) to implement (or open source) the BLE MIDI protocol and simply use a generic low cost Bluetooth dongle? Is the architecture of the MIDIX-20 capable of supporting this?

Don't know if a BLE stack will fit. Probably not. Found one guy made a limited Bluetooth stack for Microchip controllers. Probably would take me some weeks of work (if there's room enough).
First getting the stack working and then handle the BLE MIDI protocol. A loooot of work....

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

admin

#464
Might be worth researching the CME WIDI Bud
http://www.cme-pro.com/widi-bud/

https://techinmusiced.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/full-review-cme-xkey-air-and-cme-widi-bud/



When I opened the package from CME, my initial reaction to the WIDI BUD, packaged in a small blister card with minimal instructions, was, "HO HUM."

That initial reaction was really, really, really wrong. It is going to be a while until BLE MIDI is packaged with every device.  If you have a newer iPad or MacBook, you have it already–but old Apple devices, many Windows devices, most Android devices, and most (all?) Chromebooks do not have BLE MIDI capability.

This little dongle, which looks like a newer flash drive, gives BLE MIDI capability to nearly every device.

This means that you can use an XKey Air with an older iPad, MacBook, Windows computer...you get the idea. There are limitations (you have to be running Windows XP SP3, Ver 4 of Android, iOS 4.2, Chrome 43.0) but generally, if you have a modern device, the WIDI BUD can add BLE MIDI to your computing device if it does not have it.

Last summer, Web MIDI was announced, and over the last year, programs have been adding it: Noteflight, Flat.io, SoundTrap to name a few.

With this dongle, you can make a Chromebook into a BLE MIDI device, utilizing Web MIDI on these programs. Sure, you can also add a wired USB connection, which is what you would do for students (you would have a stack of physical keyboards that they would check out, use, and return). But for YOUR use...go wireless. Trust me on this one.

What is amazing is that the WIDI BUD makes a connection with a BLE MIDI device on its own. I haven't tried having two BLE MIDI sending devices turned on at the same time, so I do not know how the device would respond to two competing devices for its attention–but plug in the WIDI BUD, and turn on the XKey Air, and it works. That's it. The WIDI BUD will remember that connection until it loses power. So, if you want to connect another BLE MIDI device (such as the JamStik+ or the PUC+), turn off the XKey Air, turn on the JamStik+, and plug in the WIDI BUD.

So yes...the WIDI BUD works with ANY existing BLE MIDI device.  (See note)

Let me copy and paste that again...

The WIDI BUD works with ANY existing BLE MIDI device. (See note)

So...the JamStik+, the PUC+, the Korg MKey Air, and the few keyboards sold with BLE MIDI...should be able to  work with the WIDI BUD.

Note: This statement was not true.  It turns out that the Quicco Sound mi.1.  See more at my follow-up article.


The WIDI BUD in use, in a Chromebook. Check out the video...it works!

I have now said this for over a year...reliable MIDI interaction with a BLE MIDI device is a game changer in ease of use and functionality.

Chromebooks being able to use MIDI keyboards over a wired USB connection is a major step forward, and it means that I could teach Music Theory (mostly with Noteflight or Flat.io) with Chromebooks, and I could teach a Music Technology class (SoundTrap, Soundation, Noteflight, Flat.io) using Chromebooks. But to be able to connect wirelessly means that using those programs for my own use (not just in teaching) becomes a possibility.

Being able to use any BLE MIDI device with just about any host computing device is a game changer, too. At that point,  you are only limited by the apps and programs that are available on your computing device. And remember...on Chrome OS, the best apps require a subscription to get all of the features that you want to use (Noteflight requires a subscription to even use MIDI recording). I don't think there is anything wrong with that, because companies deserve to earn money. But it is something that we need to teach IT departments as they typically don't plan for annual subscriptions.

My only complaints about the WIDI BUD are the size of the device (it has to be that small, but people will lose them), and they are a TIGHT fit in your USB port (which is probably intentional so that you leave it plugged in). I am leaving this WIDI BUD in its package after I use it, so that I can keep track of it.

My only other complaint is that I can't find the pricing for the WIDI BUD on CME's website, so I am hoping that it is released soon and will be affordable!

As you can tell, if you have a computing device that does not have BLE MIDI, I think the WIDI BUD is a must buy. I don't know anything else like it on the market.

Thanks again to CME and Virgin Musical Instruments for allowing me to review and show off these devices.  A video appears below.



CodeSmart

I'm 99.9% sure the WIDI BUD will work with the MIDX. It's a class compliant USB Device. Internally in the onboard chip the CME folks have put a Bluetooths stack and a BLE MIDI to regular USB MIDI converter.
That is what I think is going on in there...
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

vtgearhead

I was intrigued by the wireless bud until I finally found the pricing.  $285 USD!  I'll continue to deal with cabling.

cags12

Quote from: snhirsch on August 19, 2017, 05:39:52 AM
I was intrigued by the wireless bud until I finally found the pricing.  $285 USD!  I'll continue to deal with cabling.

Where did you look for it? Its price is $60 in amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/CME-WIDI-Bud-Bluetooth-Wireless/dp/B01N7I2TUS


vtgearhead

Quote from: cags12 on August 19, 2017, 05:47:21 AM
Where did you look for it? Its price is $60 in amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/CME-WIDI-Bud-Bluetooth-Wireless/dp/B01N7I2TUS

My mistake.  I followed the purchase link on their web site and was led to XKey AIR.  I didn't have enough coffee in me to realize it was not the bud itself.

Idgolfguy

The Yamaha MD-BT101 works with the Midx-20.
Use the GP-10 into the Midx-20 out the MD wirelessly into IPad SampleTank.
Katana -> Midx-20 -> MD -> IPad -> Midi Designer Pro

Could not get the UD-BT101 to work the same way.

CodeSmart

Thanks to  rolandvg99 who just pumps great ideas into my head I'm about to release a new version of the MIDX-20 software.

EXP TOE TOGGLE aka "Wah on/off at pedal toe down"
I added a new CC translation called "EXP TOE TOGGLE". This filter listens to an arbitrary CC# and when the value reaches > 120 it  toggles another arbitrary CC# on/off. The pedal need to go down below 110 to trigger yet another toggle at > 120.

Works very well on my Katana when I set MOD to Wah and use CC#62 = "Pedal pos." and CC#49 for toe down toggling (MOD ON/OFF)
But, it also works for any other effect such as chorus or flanger, but then CC#62 (the pedal) controls the rate and the toe down turns chorus/flanger on/off.

Custom CC value for ON/OFF
The external FS's you connect to the MIDX has only been using 0/127 for off/on, now these values can be configured. This means that a FS button may change between two different effects (or amp models etc.) with for example the Katana.


Problematic power supplies
Another issue he helped me solve was bad behaving power supplies.
With a modification of the power-up code in the MIDX-20 boot loader (V1.1) the MIDX-20 is now immune against bad behaving power supplies.

Here's a normal power-on situation:


And here's what a Strymon Ojai may do to the voltage when connecting, rendering the existing MIDX-20 freezed:



Immunity against this and similar poor power-up situation require flashing a new boot loader into the MIDX-20 and this upgrade unfortunately cannot be done out in the field.

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

vtgearhead

Here's another idea:  When controlling a device whose state is actively monitored, designate CC value of 63 as "toggle state" rather than "on" or "off".  So, 0-62 = off, 63 = toggle, 64-127 = on.  This is especially useful when controlling, e.g. delay with a footswitch in the case where the on/off status changes with preset.  In the current situation you may have to press the assigned footswitch twice to change to the opposite state.  With the "toggle", you're guaranteed to end up in the opposite state on a single press.  I implemented this in my Mustang bridge and it's worked out perfectly. 

CodeSmart

The new MIDX-20 V2.3 firmware is available for download now. Manuals updated.
http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20_page2.html

MIDX-20 Release notes:
V2.3 2017-09-10
New: Added CC translation enabling Toe-Down on/off to any existing CC# stream (example Wah on/off).
New: Change CC# Off and On values to other than 0/127 on Footswitches connected to CTRL1/CTRL2.

Still got 121 bytes left ;)
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

CodeSmart

Started some initial work on a MIDX-20 "GT-1 MIDI Bridge". Don't know if anybody needs it, but since I already own the GT-1 pedal it's seems pretty awkward not to do it. Or...do you think it's a waste of time?
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!